2010 Two year olds

I dont mean to be sly Del Boy but the best in comparison to what? Get my point. They had not got a clue what they had and that was why he drifted the last day against boats.
 
Gearoid said:
I dont mean to be sly Del Boy but the best in comparison to what? Get my point. They had not got a clue what they had and that was why he drifted the last day against boats.
Click to expand...

He has done alright if you ask me - whats more he had the balls to ask the Sheikh to supplement the horse for the National Stakes. This being the first horse he got from Sheikh Mo, but he was confident the horse was up to it.

You are going way OTT about his starting price - Sea The Stars went off at 6/1 for his maiden and bigger for his Guineas. Kinane was nearly favouring Arazan in the spring for God sake!
 
I could never figure whether it was that Halford didn't know what he had from the gallops or just didn't tell anyone.He's not an aggressive trainer and he trains so that horses will train on.I tend to think he just knows if they're useful or useless. He has had some monster price winners over the years. He has always said it wasn't a gambling yard but most of them do . Hujaylea has been raised 54lbs since winning off 48 as a 5yr old in Dundalk ! What does that say.

Anyway I don't think it makes any difference whether he knew that Casamento was a group horse or not. The horse has had three good runs and will be as fit as a fiddle. The rest is up to Frankie.
 
Last edited:
Gearoid, by all means I think you may have a case for backing Dunboyne Express (I don't fancy him myself), but what does it matter for Casamento's chances as to whether the trainer realised he was a Group 1 horse or not?

The horse has comfortably the best form in the book, and should win and win well - be good to see Sheikh M's original silks win a Group 1 in England again.

The worry with Dunboyne Express would be the number of times he has had a setback and missed races - a real negative for me.
 
Gearoid said:
I dont mean to be sly Del Boy but the best in comparison to what? Get my point. They had not got a clue what they had and that was why he drifted the last day against boats.
Click to expand...

Like I said,we were told to back it. I appreciate what your saying though,best in comparison to what.I don't remember his 2yo record to be fair. I do think it's a tad unfair to sayhe didntknow what he had,it drifted cos they keep things very tight and there was money for others. Stepping it straight up to group one might indicate he knew well what he had,but only he knows. I wonder will he have it next year?
 
del boy said:
,it drifted cos they keep things very tight and there was money for others.
Click to expand...

If they kept it tight no one would have known anything in his maiden. He is a million with me to be Halford next year.
 
Last edited:
Hamm said:
but what does it matter for Casamento's chances as to whether the trainer realised he was a Group 1 horse or not?

The horse has comfortably the best form in the book, and should win and win well
Click to expand...

On a line through Samuel Morse Casemento has nothing in hand with Dunboyne Express. He has the best form but to say he should win comfortably is fanciful.

As for the trainer of Casamento, he has managed to have this horse sent off 7/1 in a maiden and 4/6 in a race he should have been 4/9 at best against a row of trees. I would not be confident taking 9/4 that the trainer has any idea how to have this horse ready to win a British Group 1, in fact I think the trainer is a big negative.
 
Last edited:
We may have to agree to disagree till Saturday - I, like others, think the Group 3 Dunboyne Express won is very unreliable form. Casamento has form against top horses and won a Group 2 very easily.

I still don't get your point about prices - he hasn't been running in handicaps but maybe I'm mistaken in that you think his is a betting stable?

Why would what he thinks affect a price in a Group 2? The horse was a red hot favourite anyway, and whether the price is shorter or longer than it should be is irrelevant. Every trainer will 'let' every horse go off at bigger odds than it should. I don't see how a trainer can affect the betting in a Group 2 - if he came out and said he thinks he's a machine, I wouldn't bat an eyelid.
 
Gearoid said:
As for the trainer of Casamento, he has managed to have this horse sent off 7/1 in a maiden and 4/6 in a race he should have been 4/9 at best against a row of trees.
Click to expand...

What price was Dunboyne Express to beat the pile of trees at The Curragh? 9/2...yeah Prendergast knew he had the Racing Post Trophy winner for sure!
 
Galileo said:
What price was Dunboyne Express to beat the pile of trees at The Curragh? 9/2...yeah Prendergast knew he had the Racing Post Trophy winner for sure!
Click to expand...

Compare like for like please,

Casamento had around 6lbs in hand when he was sent off 4/6 against the row of trees. Dunboyne Express was a maiden running against a Bolger talking horse having it's second run and Samuel Morse beat a short head in the Railway Stakes.

If you want me to be really smart about it, the early 6/1 Dunboyne Express that day was gone in the blink of an eye. No one would have noticed though because they were too busy lumping on Glor Na Mora (I hear Jim thinks he's quite good).
 
even if a trainer has a very good horse - its one thing sussing that out at home..and another getting the win FTO

maiden races are not that good gambling races imo..you could be running against a far better horse than you have and have not a clue about the oppo..especially if a couple of others are supported

obviously we have a lot of weak maidens here..but every time i look at the Irish ones there are 300 runners with a dozen from top yards..none of em look gimme's to me
 
EC1;389358O said:
maiden races are not that good gambling races imo..you could be running against a far better horse than you have and have not a clue about the oppo..especially if a couple of others are supported
Click to expand...

Maidens are races where punters have a real chance. In fact if I were on a bookmaker and could pick and choose I would not bet on them.
 
Last edited:
Gearoid said:
Compare like for like please,

Casamento had around 6lbs in hand when he was sent off 4/6 against the row of trees. Dunboyne Express was a maiden running against a Bolger talking horse having it's second run and Samuel Morse beat a short head in the Railway Stakes.

If you want me to be really smart about it, the early 6/1 Dunboyne Express that day was gone in the blink of an eye. No one would have noticed though because they were too busy lumping on Glor Na Mora (I hear Jim thinks he's quite good).
Click to expand...

I don't understand - are you blaming Halford (ie, saying he didn't know what he had) because the horse went off 4/6 in a Group 2?

There is millions of money bet on that race and I can't see what difference he can make to the price. Even if he thought that was huge and told everyone as such, why would anyone listen - the form was there for all to see and they can make their own opinions on the value in the price. If he wanted to move the price himself, he would need to be investing a lot of cash at 4/6 to drive it down, and lumping on a 4/6 shot, despite what he probably had in hand, is not a typical trainer coup. I agree the price in that race was big, but the fault is with the betting public (especially those who were silly enough to lay it), definitely not the trainer.
 
Last edited:
Okay, a million or so - point remains the same.

Not arguing with you, just don't understand what you mean..
 
I think Gearoid is talking through his flute.

Halford has done a good enough job to have his horse run as he has done. The trainer can seemingly train this horse, even if he is a fool at betting, which I am not sure that he is.

Sea the Stars was let start off at 6/1 in a maiden, and then 7/4 in a Grade 2 in his third run.

High Chaparall and Aristotle were both second favourites behind Castle Gandolfo and Zenstov St.???? in their third races.

Didn't affect their performance, or mean they were bad horses.

And Oxx and O'Brien aren't eejits. Well not as big an eejit as Gearoid.
 
Sea The Stars was beaten in his maiden so that point is redundant. If you boys want to back a Mick Halford trained horse in a British Group 1 at 9/4 I wish you a lot of luck, it will be needed.
 
[FONT=&quot]Sheikh Mohammed's bill for supplementing horses is on the rise under Halfords reign. Of course he can rest assured that no horse he sends Mick will miss an entry for the 60-95 handicaps in the Dundalk. I suppose it just never occurs to him to enter horses in Group races[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
 
Last edited:
Wonder if you're allowed to go for the Christmas money with Sheikh Mo's horses?

Could be some interesting action at Wolver and Lingfield this December if you are.
 
Back
Top