Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Waste of time if they do.
2016 Gold Cuppin
- Thread starter granger
- Start date
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Whilst Djakadam's progress has been temporarily derailed, Ruby Walsh will surely want Vautour to run over 3m in his prep - to give him at least some idea about how Vautour looks stamina-wise. If they go to Gowran, he will learn nothing, and will still be left wondering.
I still expect him to row-in with Vautour regardless, but they would learn something more about the horse by going ro Leopardstown or Newbury, and I'd find it odd if they passed on either of those, to run in the Red Mills. They have an opportunity to answer at least some of the stamina questions by running over 3-miles, and a professional operation like Mullins', seem unlikely to forgo the logical option.
I still expect him to row-in with Vautour regardless, but they would learn something more about the horse by going ro Leopardstown or Newbury, and I'd find it odd if they passed on either of those, to run in the Red Mills. They have an opportunity to answer at least some of the stamina questions by running over 3-miles, and a professional operation like Mullins', seem unlikely to forgo the logical option.
granger
Senior Jockey
If they really think he is a G1 3m rolls Royce, leop should see him next Sat
edgt
Senior Jockey
They will be wary not to bottom any horse at Leopardstown Sat as ground should be heavy, parts are waterlogged at the moment.
Giggi will be slow to run more than one I imagine, but time will tell.
Giggi will be slow to run more than one I imagine, but time will tell.
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
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- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Newbury is my preference for mainly those reasons, Edgt. Vautour has winning-form on Heavy, but essentially wants it quicker, and there's no need to give him a race in attritional ground, if there are better options available.
Mullins struggled to get Vautour ready for the JLT last season, and he will be mindful not to set him back any, in his schedule.
Mullins struggled to get Vautour ready for the JLT last season, and he will be mindful not to set him back any, in his schedule.
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Gold Cuppin
They said after Kempton if he was to be seen again before March it'd be on a left handed track so that should rule Gowran out. Then again, it's only 7 miles from his box!
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They said after Kempton if he was to be seen again before March it'd be on a left handed track so that should rule Gowran out. Then again, it's only 7 miles from his box!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Tanlic
Senior Jockey
The logical choice for the Gold Cup is and always has been Don Coassack but much depends on whether your heart rules your head or not which you end up betting.
Don Cossack had a run over 2m4f the other day which is far too short for him nowadays only served to prove the further he goes the better he gets.
No ifs and buts about it he has the class and WILL stay the trip and should be clear fav. but can hit a flat spot.
Vautour Oozes class and has a much superior turn of foot that Don Cossack and while there must be a doubt about the trip he's got the best man around to make sure he does.
However Ruby may have fooked up and gone too soon on him at Kempton a thing we tend to overlook him being Ruby and all that. The worry for the rest is this horse has a helluva kick and if Ruby hits the front on him at the top of the hill and the gears are still working then unlike Kempton he will hit crazy rate of knotts going downhill and the race could be over there and then. Great jumper and if the ground is good racing ground he's probably the most likely winner despite Don Cossack's logically better credentials.
Djackadam; I just can't see this horse winning. They talk about his speed well I don't see it when I look at the likes of Cue Card Vautour he looks slow to me.
His rep is built purely on his 2nd to Coneygree when he ran past and away from beaten horses like a one paced plodder and to me that is exactly what he is/will be in top company.
Since that GC 2nd he had his ass kicked every which way but Sunday by Don Cossack and beaten stable companion Valseur Lido who would have been beaten a distance had he stood up against Vautour and Cue card. He might win a Welsh Granbd national in the mud someday but a Gopld Cup.....No Chance would be twice the odds if trained by Joe Bloggs's sister.
Cue Card..Love the horse but not kidding myself he would need a near miracle to win a Gold Cup. There was a doubt about him getting the King george trip but with a marvelous ride buy Paddy Brennan and a not so clever one from Ruby he got there just in the nick of time. A much superior Jockey and the tactics made the difference without a doubt but 3m2f round Chelteham that surely is beyond his reach. Love the horse hate his chances..place lay old chum.
Don Poli will probably run better than most people think mainly due to others not living up to their expectations. He's a good horse very consistent only one blip in 6 races, has a touch of class and has won on the course before. The bookies are keeping him shorter than he should be most likely because he's very likley to be placed and has a decent chance of winning if things go his way.
Smad Place put himself right in the picture with an outstanding round of jumping the other day. I actually backed him at the last minute last year and he ran ok but well beat. he's improved over a stone since then but that still may not be enough. Smad Place's style of running may be a bigger asset to Vautour than it will be to Smad Place.....love to see it for Alan King who is a gentleman's gentleman but he may have to wait for Yanworth to grow up before tasting Gold Cup victory.
Many Clouds; Last I heard Sherwood said he would bypass the Gold Cup. The Gold Cup is a very good national trial I wonder why would he not take advantage of that.
He has a touch of class I would run him if he were mines.
Seeyouatmidnight: Be a lively outsider if he took up the entry but looks set to go elsewhere.
Don Cossack had a run over 2m4f the other day which is far too short for him nowadays only served to prove the further he goes the better he gets.
No ifs and buts about it he has the class and WILL stay the trip and should be clear fav. but can hit a flat spot.
Vautour Oozes class and has a much superior turn of foot that Don Cossack and while there must be a doubt about the trip he's got the best man around to make sure he does.
However Ruby may have fooked up and gone too soon on him at Kempton a thing we tend to overlook him being Ruby and all that. The worry for the rest is this horse has a helluva kick and if Ruby hits the front on him at the top of the hill and the gears are still working then unlike Kempton he will hit crazy rate of knotts going downhill and the race could be over there and then. Great jumper and if the ground is good racing ground he's probably the most likely winner despite Don Cossack's logically better credentials.
Djackadam; I just can't see this horse winning. They talk about his speed well I don't see it when I look at the likes of Cue Card Vautour he looks slow to me.
His rep is built purely on his 2nd to Coneygree when he ran past and away from beaten horses like a one paced plodder and to me that is exactly what he is/will be in top company.
Since that GC 2nd he had his ass kicked every which way but Sunday by Don Cossack and beaten stable companion Valseur Lido who would have been beaten a distance had he stood up against Vautour and Cue card. He might win a Welsh Granbd national in the mud someday but a Gopld Cup.....No Chance would be twice the odds if trained by Joe Bloggs's sister.
Cue Card..Love the horse but not kidding myself he would need a near miracle to win a Gold Cup. There was a doubt about him getting the King george trip but with a marvelous ride buy Paddy Brennan and a not so clever one from Ruby he got there just in the nick of time. A much superior Jockey and the tactics made the difference without a doubt but 3m2f round Chelteham that surely is beyond his reach. Love the horse hate his chances..place lay old chum.
Don Poli will probably run better than most people think mainly due to others not living up to their expectations. He's a good horse very consistent only one blip in 6 races, has a touch of class and has won on the course before. The bookies are keeping him shorter than he should be most likely because he's very likley to be placed and has a decent chance of winning if things go his way.
Smad Place put himself right in the picture with an outstanding round of jumping the other day. I actually backed him at the last minute last year and he ran ok but well beat. he's improved over a stone since then but that still may not be enough. Smad Place's style of running may be a bigger asset to Vautour than it will be to Smad Place.....love to see it for Alan King who is a gentleman's gentleman but he may have to wait for Yanworth to grow up before tasting Gold Cup victory.
Many Clouds; Last I heard Sherwood said he would bypass the Gold Cup. The Gold Cup is a very good national trial I wonder why would he not take advantage of that.
He has a touch of class I would run him if he were mines.
Seeyouatmidnight: Be a lively outsider if he took up the entry but looks set to go elsewhere.
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granger
Senior Jockey
Go get em Tiger
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Does anyone have the current Timeform ratings for the first seven in the betting?
Diamond Geezer
Gone But Not Forgotten
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 13,884
DON COSSACK |
| CUE CARD |
| UN DE SCEAUX |
| VAUTOUR |
| SPRINTER SACRE |
| CONEYGREE |
| DJAKADAM |
| AL FEROF |
| DON POLI |
| DOUVAN |
| MANY CLOUDS |
| SIRE DE GRUGY |
| UXIZANDRE |
| DODGING BULLETS |
| ROAD TO RICHES |
| SILVINIACO CONTI |
| TRAFFIC FLUIDE |
| PTIT ZIG |
| SPECIAL TIARA |
| SIMONSIG |
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[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 181 [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 180p [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 180p [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 172 [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 171p [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 171 [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 170 [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 169p [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 168p [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 168 [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 168 [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 168 [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 167 [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 167 [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 167 [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 166p [/TD]
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[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 166 [/TD]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"] 166? [/TD]
</tbody>
Ratings BEFORE THE WEEKEND
EC1
On a break
Vautours new rating is
180ns
180ns
archie
Senior Jockey
From the RP site:
'Discussing some of his runners for Cheltenham, Mullins said on Monday: "Vautour is a Gold Cup runner I'm sure,'
'Discussing some of his runners for Cheltenham, Mullins said on Monday: "Vautour is a Gold Cup runner I'm sure,'
EC1
On a break
he missed a word out.....up
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Will you please stop fu*cking with my karma, EC1.
:lol:
:lol:
EC1
On a break
180ns 
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Yeah, I saw it the first time. I expect it means 'non-stayer'.
It's very clever.
It's very clever.
EC1
On a break
i'm hoping still it might mean.. not start ..and run him in the Ryanair
all the excitement at start of season re 3m+ races is falling apart..Coneygree out..Don Cossack fall..Djack fall...Vautour no stamina...in end it might be Smad Place who steals the show with another front running tour de force..dafter things have happened
all the excitement at start of season re 3m+ races is falling apart..Coneygree out..Don Cossack fall..Djack fall...Vautour no stamina...in end it might be Smad Place who steals the show with another front running tour de force..dafter things have happened
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Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
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- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
For the record, I have no intention of responding every time you cry 'non-stayer' over the next 6 weeks. You rule it out, and I remain optimistic. We won't find out until the day who is right.
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Frankel
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 4,940
Being as he hadn't, already?
There is that yes.
It's the dominate thing which struck me mind. :blink:
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Willie Mullins discarded the idea of going anywhere else but the Gold Cup the other day in an interview.
When it was suggested he might go elsewhere other than the Gold Cup the guy had barely finished his sentence when Mullins dismissed it and asked "why are we going somewhere else?"
He also said he had spoken to Rich Ricci and the Gold Cup is on the agenda for Vautour.
I doubt if he was lying or trying to put anyone away and had no interest in disscussing speculation with the interviewer which left no one in any doubt the Gold Cup is cast in stone.
That Matt Chapamn who looks nearer 44 that 34 with a 18 year old female punk rocker's haircut has **** for brains and thinks he should go for the QMCC
Plonkers like him is from where the doubt start setting in but the one they all want to win is the Gold Cup and if you have half a chance you go......simple as.
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Tanlic
Senior Jockey
For the record, I have no intention of responding every time you cry 'non-stayer' over the next 6 weeks. You rule it out, and I remain optimistic. We won't find out until the day who is right.
I'll help you out mate.......you do Tues Wed and Friday.......I'll do Sat Sun Monday and we'll share Thursday :lol:
" I am just about finished the script for Simon Holt "And as the come to the top of the hill Vautour has gone to the front and is 3 lengths clear"
Any chance you can proof read it for me EC?
I'll help you out mate.......you do Tues Wed and Friday.......I'll do Sat Sun Monday and we'll share Thursday :lol:
" I am just about finished the script for Simon Holt "And as the come to the top of the hill Vautour has gone to the front and is 3 lengths clear"
Any chance you can proof read it for me EC?
"they" not "the"
EC1
On a break
I'll help you out mate.......you do Tues Wed and Friday.......I'll do Sat Sun Monday and we'll share Thursday :lol:
" I am just about finished the script for Simon Holt "And as the come to the top of the hill Vautour has gone to the front and is 3 lengths clear"
Any chance you can proof read it for me EC?
i'll give you a guarantee Tanlic..if either CC or Vautour win the GC i'll never post sectionals for NH racing again..i'm that convinced re the finishing efforts that i posted 2 pages back that the times show both will fall short.
from now until the GC i will no longer mention the non stay issue..to me its 100% neither will stay based on the KG times. i'll stand by my figures..i can't nail my colours any stronger than that. If either do win..i'll reassess how i look at split NH times as clearly they are telling me wrongly
there you go..i can't really put it on the line more strongly than that