2016 Gold Cuppin

bobs worth is a horse i would agree is a similar type to Don Poli..came to my mind ,,,a horse that runs when others cry enough

i've never really caught the Don Poli bus but the more i look at him and the race and how it will probably pan out..i want a horse like him in my corner. If they get to the bottom of that hill after a harsh scenario pacewise..i'd rather have a dour type like him on my side.
 
Isn't Smad a better option at the relative odds, considering he will also want a real test (and likely to ensure it), has form just as good sas DP, and is a much more straightforward ride?
 
What i remember most about DP's RSA was the enthusiasm as he bounded up the Cheltenham Hill. I think he's the likeliest winner.

I can't have Smad Place. I was on him last year at 25s and I couldn't stomach the feeling of backing something in a race he had been nowhere in the previous year.
 
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Grasshopper said:
Isn't Smad a better option at the relative odds, considering he will also want a real test (and likely to ensure it), has form just as good sas DP, and is a much more straightforward ride?
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I like Smad Place, I had him in the Hennessey & even wo fav last Saturday but he's not a G1 horse.


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Euronymous said:
The Bob's Worth comparison someone made is apt, but SDC would have won that race on decent ground.
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The ground was as much against Bob as it was SDC that day. Remember his Lexus win. Completely bogged down until he got that good ground on the stand rail.


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If Smad is not a G1 horse, then how can we be certain that the race will develop into the stern test everyone appears to expect?

I mean, if he can only drag the field along at G2 pace, would that be sufficient to test the stamina of some of the classier horses?
 
Grasshopper said:
Isn't Smad a better option at the relative odds, considering he will also want a real test (and likely to ensure it), has form just as good sas DP, and is a much more straightforward ride?
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there are two types of front running GC types..Coneygree..and the rest..the rest are ok whilst not being bothered in lead..nowt dare bother Coneygree..but i think they will dare take on SP at some point..will go backwards then imo
 
Grasshopper said:
If Smad is not a G1 horse, then how can we be certain that the race will develop into the stern test everyone appears to expect?

I mean, if he can only drag the field along at G2 pace, would that be sufficient to test the stamina of some of the classier horses?
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Smad Place can go G1 pace up to a point..so he will go G1 pace to stay in front of them..its last 5 fences where he won't have left in tank what he usually has. So he will go faster than he usually does early if he takes that lead position..and so empty tank too soon

imo..he might shock us all and keep it up..but his recent figures don't tell me that

we have these front runners win smaller Graded races before througout the season..they star for a bit in the big one..but then its all over from 5 out

Such as Coneygree are rare birds
 
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Kauto Abu said:
A Martin Pipe win at the festival over 2m4f off 11st8lb would suggest otherwise.



Really, so Many Clouds with a run under his belt was unfit at Aintree but Don Poli on seasonal debut was 100% wound up!!




This coming from a fella who is certain Peace & Co will beat Faugheen in the Champion hurdle.



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First of there is no need for snide remarks my post was aimed at the horse not at you.

Mullins doesn't send horses across the Channel unfit to let them have a look at the people but Sherwood has no such reservations about running Many Clouds needing it.

You better hope I am right because Don Poli beat him 4 lengths getting 5 lbs whereas Smad Place beat him 12 lengths, Djakadam over 20 lengths and Cue Card finshed 25 lengths in front of him.

But suddenly when he takes on Don Poli he was fit as a fiddle..........BS he was he blew up going to the last and did the same against Smad Place the other day,

There is not one bit of form you could say was Gold Cup standard in his resume.

Someone thinks he's a superstar but it's not the Racing Post that's for sure..........a top speed of 123??? and rated 15 lbs behind Don Cossack........he's great value at 6/1

111F1 Don Cossack64 9 11-10 Gordon Elliott — 169 185
30 211-12 Vautour 83 7 11-10 W P Mullins — 154 184
6 2-4111 Cue Card 83 10 11-10 Colin Tizzard — 165 184
7 12-21F Djakadam 48 7 11-10 W P Mullins — 162 178
1 352-13 Al Ferof 83 11 11-10 Dan Skelton — 150 177
26 4-1141 Smad Place 48 9 11-10 Alan King — 154 177
15 61-622 Many Clouds 48 9 11-10 Oliver Sherwood 163 174
20 113-31 Road To Riches 127 9 11-10 Noel Meade 155 173
23 21-155 Saphir Du Rheu 90 7 11-10 Paul Nicholls 139 172
31 1-7222 Virak55 7 11-10 Paul Nicholls — 116 170
9 11-511 Don Poli 81 7 11-10 W P Mullins — 123 170
 
As impressive as Don Poli has been at Cheltenham - the form from that year's RSA doesn't look that strong albeit I suppose Southfield Theatre's two runs have been too bad to be true . I wouldn't be surprised if Cooper rode Don Cossack especially if he thinks they would have won the KG .
 
all that from a man who reckons rating don't matter but even I have to draw a line somewhere........he won't see the way the top 3 went IMO he's too fooking slow simple as.
 
Grasshopper said:
No way does Vautour need to make the pace, imo.....though I'm not at all worried if he does.
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You know my view. I have no doubt Vautour can win, for me its all about if he can keep the gallop up long enough before they catch up. I can't see him sitting in the middle of the pack as his kick of pace will have gone at the end.
 
Tanlic said:
First of there is no need for snide remarks my post was aimed at the horse not at you.

Mullins doesn't send horses across the Channel unfit to let them have a look at the people but Sherwood has no such reservations about running Many Clouds needing it.

You better hope I am right because Don Poli beat him 4 lengths getting 5 lbs whereas Smad Place beat him 12 lengths, Djakadam over 20 lengths and Cue Card finshed 25 lengths in front of him.

But suddenly when he takes on Don Poli he was fit as a fiddle..........BS he was he blew up going to the last and did the same against Smad Place the other day,

There is not one bit of form you could say was Gold Cup standard in his resume.

Someone thinks he's a superstar but it's not the Racing Post that's for sure..........a top speed of 123??? and rated 15 lbs behind Don Cossack........he's great value at 6/1

111F1 Don Cossack64 9 11-10 Gordon Elliott — 169 185
30 211-12 Vautour 83 7 11-10 W P Mullins — 154 184
6 2-4111 Cue Card 83 10 11-10 Colin Tizzard — 165 184
7 12-21F Djakadam 48 7 11-10 W P Mullins — 162 178
1 352-13 Al Ferof 83 11 11-10 Dan Skelton — 150 177
26 4-1141 Smad Place 48 9 11-10 Alan King — 154 177
15 61-622 Many Clouds 48 9 11-10 Oliver Sherwood 163 174
20 113-31 Road To Riches 127 9 11-10 Noel Meade 155 173
23 21-155 Saphir Du Rheu 90 7 11-10 Paul Nicholls 139 172
31 1-7222 Virak55 7 11-10 Paul Nicholls — 116 170
9 11-511 Don Poli 81 7 11-10 W P Mullins — 123 170
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i wouldn't bother quoting topspeed Tanlic..i already highlighted how bad their Irish standards are...shocking things

i wouldn't be hanging my hat on that 4 length win in that race at Aintree either..it won't resemble the GC one bit

DP is a contender for sure.
 
Grasshopper said:
No way does Vautour need to make the pace, imo.....though I'm not at all worried if he does.
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He won't trust me Ruby will ride him in the same way as he did Kauto Star and go from the top of the hill and probably only Cue Card and Don Cossack to a lesser extend will have the speed to go with him.

The answer for me lies in the King George only this time it will be a Don Cossack Vautor 1-2 and I don't much care in which order.
 
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Tanlic said:
all that from a man who reckons rating don't matter but even I have to draw a line somewhere........he won't see the way the top 3 went IMO he's too fooking slow simple as.
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youi think he's slow because you believe the RP standrard times in Ireland..that anyone can see are totally cockeyed

read the posts that are trying to help you through this topspeed sludge
 
EC1 said:
i wouldn't bother quoting topspeed Tanlic..i already highlighted how bad their Irish standards are...shocking things

i wouldn't be hanging my hat on that 4 length win in that race at Aintree either..it won't resemble the GC one bit

DP is a contender for sure.
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Ho can you a speed freak say that. Show me one bit of form that says he's a player against the likes of DC or Vautour
 
Tanlic said:
Ho can you a speed freak say that. Show me one bit of form that says he's a player against the likes of DC or Vautour
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i'd start reading posts Tanlic..i'm not spending more time explaining..look back to my reply earlier..its like banging head again a wall man..come on..read posts or i'm wasting my time responding..i got guinness to drink lad:)..come on
 
Digger said:
You know my view. I have no doubt Vautour can win, for me its all about if he can keep the gallop up long enough before they catch up. I can't see him sitting in the middle of the pack as his kick of pace will have gone at the end.
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The King George run tells you he can sustain a gallop longer than this lot already - it's whether he can sustain it for longer than he has done to date. If he can, then his turn-of-foot will very much come into play.

There's basically two options for Walsh.

One, he rides Vautour like a non-stayer, and tries to steady the pace from the front. Or two, he rides him like a non-stayer and buries him in the pack. Either way, I think he rides him like a non-stayer.

He probably won't make his decision on how to ride the race, until he looks around himself after the first. If he is in front, he will try and set the pace to suit his horse. If he is in behind, I think he will be quite happy to gallop away in mid-division. What I don't expect to happen, is for Vautour to pull Walsh into a protracted battle for the lead, and compromise his chance of getting home. He is exuberant, rather than head-strong, and I don't think being dropped-in will be any kind of problem or handicap.
 
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One thing i've never seen Ruby do..is go the wrong pace in front..he is the Steve Cauthen of NH racing..if they go off fast..he'll drop in..if not he'll lead. Either scenario though won't matter when the petrol runs out 2 from home. I cannot see any horse getting an easy lead though..not with SP in there

sorry..i can't mention that petrol bit again:)..i promised

sorry Grass
 
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