:lol:
2016 Gold Cuppin
- Thread starter granger
- Start date
:lol:
Doesn't that assume he knows more about the horse than Bryan Cooper?
Gold Cuppin
No I don't think so. I think he reckons the horse is tailor made for the race regardless of who's on his back. With the extra 2.5 furlongs with a stiff uphill finish it's not rocket science. Also he holds a 100% strike rate at the course, one over 3m when he was only getting going, so another reason to justify his confidence.
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No I don't think so. I think he reckons the horse is tailor made for the race regardless of who's on his back. With the extra 2.5 furlongs with a stiff uphill finish it's not rocket science. Also he holds a 100% strike rate at the course, one over 3m when he was only getting going, so another reason to justify his confidence.
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Frankel
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:lol:
Grasshopper
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Don Poli - the horse that beat Southfield Theatre 6L, First Loot a half-length, and comes off worse at the weights against a National winner.
He will be the first of the principals beaten in this Gold Cup. He simply doesn't have the form in the book to trouble any of the first four in the betting - or Smad Place either, come to think of it. He is a slow, old yak that hindsight will confirm would have been better-off campaigned in Nationals. He will be TO'd before they turn down the hill.
He will be the first of the principals beaten in this Gold Cup. He simply doesn't have the form in the book to trouble any of the first four in the betting - or Smad Place either, come to think of it. He is a slow, old yak that hindsight will confirm would have been better-off campaigned in Nationals. He will be TO'd before they turn down the hill.
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Grasshopper
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Red card, ref!!!
Gold Cuppin
Ya, a bit like most of the last few winners of the Gold cup. All 'slow old yaks' who were seemingly out paced coming down the hill. (Don Poli is lazy yes, but slow? Not a chance.) Gold Cup winners that have included Synchronised (a Midlands and Welsh National winner), Bobs Worth and Lord Windemere flat out coming down the hill before flying home passing tired horses who had traveled visually better earlier on the way to clinching the Gold Cup. Long Run outpaced by Kauto Star & Denman before staying on strongly up that gruelling home straight. Any potential gold cup winner simply must have an abundance of stamina first & foremost. Coneygree demonstrated that last year by pouring it on from the front like Smad Place will attempt to do this year. See Road to Riches in the home straight, a proven stayer whose legs simply went to jelly.
Of the market principles the only one to lack stamina there is Vautour. He simply has doesn't have it his reserves like the others, out stayed on a flat 3m course at Kempton where a funeral procession walking behind a hearse would've passed him. The sectionals don't lie. He was all out and will be in big bother facing that hill. You know he will.
As for DP not having the form to win a Gold Cup, as a Vautour fan saying that I find it quite amusing. How about actually winning a race over 3m first. Or the image of Vautour struggling to shake off Petit Pig at Ascot whilst getting 5lbs from him, he has done that form line the world of good since!! The only thing Vautour will have going for him in the gold cup is that when he gets absolutely knackered late on, at least the race rail will keep on the track when he starts jumping left again!!
Don Poli has graded and listed form over the distance winning a Lexus in a bog, an RSA on good ground and beating a race fit Many Clouds at Aintree with a slipped saddle for the last circuit!! Secondly he has won over 2m4f twice, once at the festival, the other trouncing smashing who'll be one of the principles in the Ryanair so I'm fairly certain he wont be left behind
.
Do I expect him to be scrubbed along at times, yes I'm certain he will be. I hope he will be because he'll be wakened up again by Cooper fairly sharply. The thing is, it truly is impossible to know how much more there is in the tank with Don Poli, but he gives the strongest possible impression that there is another gear or two in him that he has yet to encounter a test strong enough to justify engaging. He'll certainly get that 18 March.
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Ya, a bit like most of the last few winners of the Gold cup. All 'slow old yaks' who were seemingly out paced coming down the hill. (Don Poli is lazy yes, but slow? Not a chance.) Gold Cup winners that have included Synchronised (a Midlands and Welsh National winner), Bobs Worth and Lord Windemere flat out coming down the hill before flying home passing tired horses who had traveled visually better earlier on the way to clinching the Gold Cup. Long Run outpaced by Kauto Star & Denman before staying on strongly up that gruelling home straight. Any potential gold cup winner simply must have an abundance of stamina first & foremost. Coneygree demonstrated that last year by pouring it on from the front like Smad Place will attempt to do this year. See Road to Riches in the home straight, a proven stayer whose legs simply went to jelly.
Of the market principles the only one to lack stamina there is Vautour. He simply has doesn't have it his reserves like the others, out stayed on a flat 3m course at Kempton where a funeral procession walking behind a hearse would've passed him. The sectionals don't lie. He was all out and will be in big bother facing that hill. You know he will.
As for DP not having the form to win a Gold Cup, as a Vautour fan saying that I find it quite amusing. How about actually winning a race over 3m first. Or the image of Vautour struggling to shake off Petit Pig at Ascot whilst getting 5lbs from him, he has done that form line the world of good since!! The only thing Vautour will have going for him in the gold cup is that when he gets absolutely knackered late on, at least the race rail will keep on the track when he starts jumping left again!!
Don Poli has graded and listed form over the distance winning a Lexus in a bog, an RSA on good ground and beating a race fit Many Clouds at Aintree with a slipped saddle for the last circuit!! Secondly he has won over 2m4f twice, once at the festival, the other trouncing smashing who'll be one of the principles in the Ryanair so I'm fairly certain he wont be left behind
. Do I expect him to be scrubbed along at times, yes I'm certain he will be. I hope he will be because he'll be wakened up again by Cooper fairly sharply. The thing is, it truly is impossible to know how much more there is in the tank with Don Poli, but he gives the strongest possible impression that there is another gear or two in him that he has yet to encounter a test strong enough to justify engaging. He'll certainly get that 18 March.
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Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Totally. Still the best value of the race, been backing him since the summer.
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I'd be hoping for better ground. The two most impressive wins of his career came on good ground at the festival. Winning the Martin Pipe by 4 or 5L & the RSA by 6L. The RSA would have been a distance more only for getting in really tight to the second last.
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Frankel
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Even with his previous form he had to be pushed along. And, just look at who he's up against this time round. Different ball game completely.
If for some reason there is no pace then he really is fu**ed. He has to hope for strong fractions, hang in there somehow then pick up the pieces (big if on better ground).
Even then I see at least one being too good.
If for some reason there is no pace then he really is fu**ed. He has to hope for strong fractions, hang in there somehow then pick up the pieces (big if on better ground).
Even then I see at least one being too good.
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Good post Kauto Abu. I agree with almost everything there.
One thing I thought was very interesting was what I heard on the FFPodcast. I think it was Kevin Blake referencing a conversation with someone is Mullins yard.
When talking about Don Poli and his apparent laziness, and whether headgear might be considered, it was mentioned that when he gets to Cheltenham he comes alive. I think they bring him out to the parade ring 20 mins early to let him soak up the atmosphere and it revs him up.
I thought it was interesting. Also, the horse won a Martin Pipe on Good ground, going away. Albeit that was on the New course. I don't think he'll lack for pace myself.
On the flip side, its worth remembering Vautour's most impressive performance in the JLT was on the New Course.
Something has to give.....
One thing I thought was very interesting was what I heard on the FFPodcast. I think it was Kevin Blake referencing a conversation with someone is Mullins yard.
When talking about Don Poli and his apparent laziness, and whether headgear might be considered, it was mentioned that when he gets to Cheltenham he comes alive. I think they bring him out to the parade ring 20 mins early to let him soak up the atmosphere and it revs him up.
I thought it was interesting. Also, the horse won a Martin Pipe on Good ground, going away. Albeit that was on the New course. I don't think he'll lack for pace myself.
On the flip side, its worth remembering Vautour's most impressive performance in the JLT was on the New Course.
Something has to give.....
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Florida Pearl was impressive in his RSA, would have been devastating in a bigger field over the JLT trip - as would One Man. The history of the Gold Cup is choc full of classy 3 mile chasers who fell into a hole over 3m2 when asked to tackle that hill.
Gold Cuppin
But he still gets the job done Frankel doesn't he? He's not been pushed along because he's slow, his festival win over 2m4f with 11st8lbs on his back in a handicap alone tells you he's not slow, he's been pushed along because he's a lazy *******! Don Cossack is similar but no one ever picks up on it. It's the genes. DC was flat out at Kempton & would've probably won if staying upright. At Thurles against Rubi Light he was flat out turning in against average horses but nothing made of it, it's just their way. Ask Willie Mullins if Don Poli's slow. He'll answer you, he said he was only cantering up the hill half speed in last years RSA. Horses can't talk but their body language can tell a lot. This fellas ears are the give away. He has tons left in the tank.
Trust me, it's a gold cup. There'll be plenty of pace on. Smad Place will definitely bowl off, On his own was up there last year 'til 2 or 3 out. Adrenaline alone would ensure a good pace. None of the stamina horses would want to set it up for something with speed at the end & King has said Smad will bowl off.
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But he still gets the job done Frankel doesn't he? He's not been pushed along because he's slow, his festival win over 2m4f with 11st8lbs on his back in a handicap alone tells you he's not slow, he's been pushed along because he's a lazy *******! Don Cossack is similar but no one ever picks up on it. It's the genes. DC was flat out at Kempton & would've probably won if staying upright. At Thurles against Rubi Light he was flat out turning in against average horses but nothing made of it, it's just their way. Ask Willie Mullins if Don Poli's slow. He'll answer you, he said he was only cantering up the hill half speed in last years RSA. Horses can't talk but their body language can tell a lot. This fellas ears are the give away. He has tons left in the tank.
Trust me, it's a gold cup. There'll be plenty of pace on. Smad Place will definitely bowl off, On his own was up there last year 'til 2 or 3 out. Adrenaline alone would ensure a good pace. None of the stamina horses would want to set it up for something with speed at the end & King has said Smad will bowl off.
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Gold Cuppin
Indeed, Silvinaco Conti another, who as EC would put it, on last years KG used way more petrol than this years two principles but still finished well ahead for a finish, even on slightly better ground this year!! Look at what that extra 2.5f finish done to him. It stopped him to a standstill.
Vautour will be trying to emulate a Kauto star by winning a Gold cup with his main attribute, speed, but again look at what Kauto Star was doing to King George fields in his pomp. He'd have time to de saddle, get hosed down meet the crowds and then come out to see who got second if he so wanted.
People don't understand what those extra 2.5f can do to a horse. It can absolutely break him which is why stamina laden horses generally thrive. I've said it before & I'll say it again. When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
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Indeed, Silvinaco Conti another, who as EC would put it, on last years KG used way more petrol than this years two principles but still finished well ahead for a finish, even on slightly better ground this year!! Look at what that extra 2.5f finish done to him. It stopped him to a standstill.
Vautour will be trying to emulate a Kauto star by winning a Gold cup with his main attribute, speed, but again look at what Kauto Star was doing to King George fields in his pomp. He'd have time to de saddle, get hosed down meet the crowds and then come out to see who got second if he so wanted.
People don't understand what those extra 2.5f can do to a horse. It can absolutely break him which is why stamina laden horses generally thrive. I've said it before & I'll say it again. When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
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Frankel
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It's fine getting the job done at that level.
On better ground say, is Smad really good enough to make this a severe test that Poli needs. I question that.
V and CC could race soon enough that the trip is taken on trust, thus potentially helping his chances.
The ground though I feel is key to the chances of Poli.
On better ground say, is Smad really good enough to make this a severe test that Poli needs. I question that.
V and CC could race soon enough that the trip is taken on trust, thus potentially helping his chances.
The ground though I feel is key to the chances of Poli.
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Gold Cuppin
What, Grade 1 level you mean? If there was. grade 0 level he'd be doing the same. He just does what he needs to do.
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What, Grade 1 level you mean?
If there was. grade 0 level he'd be doing the same. He just does what he needs to do. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Frankel
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What Grade 1 level you mean?
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You're clearly too far down the road and there is no way back. I admire your loyalty and resistance of the obvious threats posed.
No place for the weak to show any ounce of weakness with the big one looming.
Gold Cuppin
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You're clearly too far down the road and there is no way back. I admire your loyalty and resistance of the obvious threats posed.
No place for the weak to show any ounce of weakness with the big one looming.
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edgt
Senior Jockey
WPM for once will not give two s£££s as to who wins the race once it is one of his.
Valseur Lido is probably the best value of the four ; had Ruby not been unseated the last day he would be a third the price he is now.
His Drinmore win was hugely impressive also and staying is his game; he could well be the forgotten horse here.
Valseur Lido is probably the best value of the four ; had Ruby not been unseated the last day he would be a third the price he is now.
His Drinmore win was hugely impressive also and staying is his game; he could well be the forgotten horse here.
Would that be the same Siviniaco Conti that holds a National entry, and whose trainer thinks will stay all day?
Gold Cuppin
So he did stay up that hill then by your reckoning? I must have been dreaming so that he got the nickname Sickbag Conti so from his attempts to get up the hill.
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So he did stay up that hill then by your reckoning? I must have been dreaming so that he got the nickname Sickbag Conti so from his attempts to get up the hill.
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EC1
On a break
Would that be the same Siviniaco Conti that holds a National entry, and whose trainer thinks will stay all day?
i don't buy he doesn't like the hill at Cheltenham..he got the hill ok in lord windermere's year..then stopped as though shot through not staying that test... His record at beyond 25f.. F47
he won doing handsprings over 2m5 other day ..national hoss?
he is a solid stayer at 3m/3m1f..but the extra distance has wiped him out each time he tried it?..and this year..not looked great at 3miles
.Nichols wants him in the national..so he is going...does every horse stay then that runs in it...lots of trainers think their hosses will stay it..many get it wrong. You won't know unless you try it..he is trying it..wrong choice imo after the great win other day at significantly shorter. Its just possible hoss has got sick of the long distance running..he looked gone at game earlier in the season for instance at 3m
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Grasshopper
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Quality hoot that runs in the Martin Pipe and a sub-standard RSA is used to boost Poli, but a head second in the best KG in years on hos first run at 3m, has Vautour dismissed as a non-stayer.