2016 Gold Cuppin

archie said:
EC, going back to page 27 when you were good enough to provide the above figures in support of your view of Cue Card and Vautour as non-stayers, how do you describe Kauto Star in 2011 who recorded approximate splits of
F1-F16 = 306 (F1-F7=120, F7-F13=129, F13-F16=57)
F16-Fin = 39
on going that was seemingly similar to 2015?
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2015Cue Card59.9559.4070.4359.2058.9539.26347.19
2011Kauto Star59.8459.4770.4558.5857.2638.26343.86

<colgroup><col width="53"><col width="128"><col width="66"><col width="66"><col width="66"><col width="72"><col width="69"><col width="70"><col width="11"><col width="86"></colgroup> <tbody>
[TD="width: 53"][/TD]
[TD="width: 128"][/TD]
[TD="width: 66"] F1 – F4 [/TD]
[TD="width: 66"] F4 – F7 [/TD]
[TD="width: 66"] F7 – F10 [/TD]
[TD="width: 72"] F10 – F13 [/TD]
[TD="width: 69"] F13 – F16 [/TD]
[TD="width: 70"] F16 – FIN [/TD]
[TD="width: 11"][/TD]
[TD="width: 86"] Total [/TD]

</tbody>


breaking that down to allow for that burst KS puts in from 13-16

Cue Card = F13 to finish = 98.21
KS = F13 to finish = 95.52

Fair to say that the ground was a little quicker when KS won..thats why i haven't used it as a comparison..but the spurt that KS puts in from F13-F16 really should have made him finish from F16 to finish a bit slower than CC..but he still runs it a second faster than CC..and thats after running 8 lengths faster than CC between 13 & 16..and 3 lengths faster between 10 & 13
 
Thanks EC. How do you compare and contrast Long Run's, erm, runs in 2010 and 2011? Just "they're not machines"?
 
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I can compare all day Archie..its not really convincing anyone or of much interest i don't think ..people will decide what they have to..i've put enough figures up to bore arse of most folk. I just look at the figures and base my judgements on them..others don't value them at all..we all different.

The Kauto Star one just tells a similar story to the other comparisons to me..but its not as convincing as its on slightly faster ground..hence i never used that one.
 
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I'd be far more disappointed if one of the principles dropped out than if my bet in the race lost. It's the most anticipated Gold Cup I can recall and as such betting comes secondary.

Let's hope they're all still upright going out on their final circuit because the cheers of encouragement that always reverberate around the stands as they come past will be spine tingling.

Wish I was there just for that.
 
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TheBear said:
I'd be far more disappointed if one of the principles dropped out than if my bet in the race lost. It's the most anticipated Gold Cup I can recall and as such betting comes secondary.

Let's hope they're all still upright going out on their final circuit because the cheers of encouragement that always reverberate around the stands as they come past will be spine tingling.


Wish I was there just for that.
Click to expand...


The most anticipated Gold Cup you can recall !!! - Where were you in 2004 and 2008 ?
 
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this gc doesn't get near the great Ks denman clashes of the past. The fact that very ordinary horses such as don poli are given a chance by some tells own story. Cc is the only true proven star in the race and as much as I'm backing him it would hardly be for the same reasons I would back denman or Ks in the gc.

I really don't go fo cross generation comparisons but the vastly underrated and forgotten exotic dancer would murder a good number of this field, if not all

this is the tail end of ccs career and I'm far from assured that anything in the rest of the field will develop into a "great" . Tizzard has done a remarkable job with this horse. A great training performance

And on that note denman and Ks were under the tutelage of a trainer who could majestically improve staying chasers season after season. Peerless
 
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As good a job as Nicholls did keeping Kauto Star going (less so with Denman who won once in just ten races after winning the Gold Cup), he was unable to win a Gold Cup with either when they reached the age of 10. That stat alone is a big cross against Cue Card and it will indeed be a very fine training performance if he wins this year.
 
Then again Kauto was in imperious form the year IC won and he fell . That horrible mistake he made on the first circuit did him some serious mischief . Had he not made it who knows what might have happened .
 
archie said:
As good a job as Nicholls did keeping Kauto Star going (less so with Denman who won once in just ten races after winning the Gold Cup), he was unable to win a Gold Cup with either when they reached the age of 10. That stat alone is a big cross against Cue Card and it will indeed be a very fine training performance if he wins this year.
Click to expand...

Denman was second in three Gold Cups after atrial fibrillation - not a bad effort .
 
granger said:
Vautour is 14s for 2017 race

Thistlecrack is 20s
Click to expand...

Maybe Thistlecrack will be the next Kauto Star but my money is on Douvan. I love the way he moves he has an unbelieveable engine in there.

If UDS wins the QMCC I expect Douvan will be stepped up in trip straight away and the King George 10/1 will be the target.

This is a very interesting Gold Cup and well above average but we're not going to find a Kauto Star among them.

When you look at Long Run V Cue Card like EC has you get to thinking if Cue Card won the King George after losing in the race twice and badly just what is that form worth?
 
However you try to spin it, neither Denman nor Kauto Star won a Gold Cup when they reached double figures. The horse that beat the two 10yos in 2010 had before that never won under rules over more than 21 furlongs but loved Cheltenham. Remind you of anyone?
 
Cant you read? I said proven star not stamina. And if stamina was proven then I wouldn't have posted the qualification
 
I am reminded that ks ran a whole lot better and literally bounced round kempton compared with cheltenham reverse remind you of anyone?
 
Fair cop - but I disagree absolutely that he is the only proven star.

You are clearly a big fan of CC, but that claim is cobblers. He has been around longer than the others, is somewhat of a comeback-king, and therefore probably generates more sentiment as a result. But that's as far as it goes.
 
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