2016 Gold Cuppin

Best Mate was quick enough to have won a Supreme and would have done if Culloty hadn't have taken the pretty route. He hadn't won beyond 21 furlongs until the Gold Cup either. Speed and stamina aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
 
clivex said:
I really don't go fo cross generation comparisons but the vastly underrated and forgotten exotic dancer would murder a good number of this field, if not all
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Goodness gracious.

The only way he'd be able to murder some of this field would be to shoot them in the arse with a long range rifle.
 
Exotic Dancer was a very good horse, and probably under-rated too. I don't think it's too outlandish to say he'd be amongst the favorites in this Gold Cup.
 
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i don't see how ED is any way underrated..OHR was decent enough..who underrated him Clive?

i remember at the time i posted that if you removed KS from his form line he would have won a lot of races
 
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I know he was a hold up horse by nature but it always seemed to me that they knew he wasn't up to beating KS and as such was ridden for a place.
 
he was a bit like R Johnson v AP..remove AP you have a similar story with RJ's form..under appreciated would be more like it yes..Excelebartion is another example..you won't know that one Grass:)

ED's ratings were very good
 
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archie said:
Best Mate was quick enough to have won a Supreme and would have done if Culloty hadn't have taken the pretty route. He hadn't won beyond 21 furlongs until the Gold Cup either. Speed and stamina aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
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Vautour didn't just win a Supreme and JLT, he dismantled them. He had them cooked turning in in the KG.
For me he's more speed than stamina and think the trip will find him out. I'm sure they are hoping for decent ground.
 
No....I wouldn't.

There should be a sin-bin for anyone mentioning toss-pot Flat horses, on a Gold Cup thread.
 
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EC1 said:
he was a bit like R Johnson v AP..remove AP you have a similar story with RJ's form..under appreciated would be more like it yes..Excelebartion is another example..you won't know that one Grass:)

ED's ratings were very good
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Excelebration bless him. Had his day in QE11. Dismantled them.
 
EC1 said:
he was a bit like R Johnson v AP..remove AP you have a similar story with RJ's form..under appreciated would be more like it yes..Excelebartion is another example..you won't know that one Grass:)

ED's ratings were very good
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underappreciated. For once grass is right. I wasn't referring to spreadsheets
 
Frankel said:
Stick Douvan in the QM and he would eat UDS.
Not a Gold Cup horse Tanlic.
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Have you any idea how many people said the same thing about Kauto Star and Desert Orchid

Spoke to Francome one day at the races because we thought of taking on the latter in 2 mile hurdle and told us don't bother he takes off like a bat out of hell then quickens up

If you or anyone else had said Dessie would win a Whitbread one day I would have thought you were insane.

Douvan is so relaxed he'll get 3 miles standing on his head...get yer sheckles on for the King George now :thumbsup:
 
A lot of people think Vautour won't stay based on what they say in the King George.

Taking a closer look I reckon they are wrong.

Ruby's given him a squeeze and a nudge or two approaching the final bend and he's taken off under him put distance between himself and Cue Card

Previews to that and a slow jump at the 4th last Cue Card is running away with his jockey.

The combination of the two things happening within seconds gets Cue Card at it to try and keep up but it's temporary.
Once back on an even keel he's getting back into it.

It's there you have to make up your own mind was Vautour caught because he didn't get the trip or did he simply get tired.
I reckon it was the latter. He's jumped the last like a tired horse but despite that he has ran on like a tiger (albeit a tired one) all the way to the line

A couple of things seem to back this up. He wasn't 100% right on his reappearance only 4 weeks before the King George
so there's a fair chance he wasn't at his absolute peak for the King George.

Given the right conditions and if Ruby sticks with him I reckon he's got a helluva chance.

A lot of Gold Cups like Champion Hurdles and are settled at the top of the hill. Kauto and Denman both kicked then when they won and nothing could go with them

The one thing Vautour has is the ability to quicken better than anything else in the race and propel himself down that hill at a rate of knots like Kauto did.

The only question is will he see it out. If he does it's race over if he doesn't then he'll get DON..e on the way up the hill.
WPM would seem to back this up when he said he'll be even better in the spring.
 
who are yer favourite 5 irish horses in training Clive? would you have a favourite irish trained all time list? Your favourite Mullins horses? Will he even get a winner this year?

clivex said:
this gc doesn't get near the great Ks denman clashes of the past. The fact that very ordinary horses such as don poli are given a chance by some tells own story. Cc is the only true proven star in the race and as much as I'm backing him it would hardly be for the same reasons I would back denman or Ks in the gc.

I really don't go fo cross generation comparisons but the vastly underrated and forgotten exotic dancer would murder a good number of this field, if not all

this is the tail end of ccs career and I'm far from assured that anything in the rest of the field will develop into a "great" . Tizzard has done a remarkable job with this horse. A great training performance

And on that note denman and Ks were under the tutelage of a trainer who could majestically improve staying chasers season after season. Peerless
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Tanlic said:
It's there you have to make up your own mind was Vautour caught because he didn't get the trip or did he simply get tired.
I reckon it was the latter. He's jumped the last like a tired horse but despite that he has ran on like a tiger (albeit a tired one) all the way to the line

A couple of things seem to back this up. He wasn't 100% right on his reappearance only 4 weeks before the King George
so there's a fair chance he wasn't at his absolute peak for the King George.
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WPM made the point - both before and after the KG - that Vautour wasn't at his peak, and was being trained with March in mind. Had he been so, he would have comfortably disposed of the trained-to-the-minute Cue Card; there'd be little discussion whether he stayed or didn't, and he'd be a lot shorter than his current price for the CGC.
Doesn't mean he'll definitely stay, of course, and despite the millions of words written on the subject, I doubt anyone could say with any certainty - either way.
 
Just read this about Cue Card from the Tizzard stable tour. It's incredibly difficult not to get carried away in his enthusiasm:-

He’s the horse of a lifetime and in absolutely brilliant form and at his very peak. Last year it was about this time when one day he couldn’t get up the gallop and his epiglottis had gone. It was like having a golf ball in the middle of his throat and he just couldn’t breathe. He’s come back looking a million dollars this year and from the first time we ran him he has just been very good. He used to tear up the gallops but he’s more relaxed now and he now looks like a staying chaser. That’s what helps him stay further and in the King George it took all of the three miles for Paddy Brennan to get him there. It took him a long time to get past Vautour and if it had been over another half mile he would have won by three or four lengths. Cheltenham really suits him and he ran away with the Champion Bumper as a four-year-old and when winning the Ryanair Chase. He is able to get a breather in coming down into the dip and then finishes off right up the hill. He had a gallop round Kempton on Saturday and I can’t believe how well he is – if he stays like that in three weeks’ time it will be alright I think we have a better chance of winning the Gold Cup than I thought coming into the King George and I get nervous about it but it’s great
 
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