2016 Gold Cuppin

Many Clouds still has Kelso as an option as a warm up for the GN rather than CGC, as Kelso have rescheduled their abandoned meeting for next Sunday.
 
Desert Orchid said:
:confused::confused::confused:
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Denman: Highest OR (182), Highest RPR (187)
Smad Place: Highest OR (169), Highest RPR (173)
OHO: Highest OR (162), Highest RPR (168)

I make that about 20lbs (or the best part of two-stone) between Denman and On His Own, and will settle for a stone between Denman and Smad Place.

That would have permitted you one :confused: around Smad, rather than the three you used........though those of tender years do tend to get more easily confused, so perhaps that's something to do with it......and maybe the other :confused: was because your brother was also confused.

Thankfully, EC understood what was meant, and has provided his usual comprehensive response.
 
Gold Cuppin

archie said:
Sure I was half winding you up, KA, but I think there's just as much chance of OHO controlling the pace from the front as just blazing away. Jockey bookings for all the Mullins horses will be interesting. For all the discussion, I'm not sure that anyone has said that they're certain that Vautour will stay but I don't think that anyone has come up with a reason to oppose him other than stamina. We're all grown up enough to sink or swim by our own decisions and face the consequences if we're wrong. As I said earlier, for me Vautour wins if he stays and Don Poli wins if he doesn't. Either result will have me in profit. You have looked at Vautour's Ascot and Kempton runs and taken a view. I looked at his pre-Cheltenham runs last season and then the JLT. If he's in the same frame of mind this year, it's easy to see him lobbing along close up at the top of the hill, freewheeling downhill and taking the lead coming round the bend. That's the stage where no-one knows how things will turn out.
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Indeed it is and like Kempton I'm sure he'll be travelling like a dream to a point. It's once he comes under pressure he's in bother. I just see him coming under pressure quicker than others due to what I think will be a truly run race from the off.

The fact that SP & RTR can take it up too, I'm happy the first section of the race will be run fast. Both Jockeys will want the race run to play to their horses strengths and they don't have to go like the clappers for the whole race. Just the first circuit. Smad Place has had a career revival from the front lately as opposed to Kempton where he was dropped in. I'm sure Graham Wylie will want the race run to stand to his horses strengths too & having stamina and form over the GC trip I'm sure Paddy Mullins will be up there getting a right spin off OHO.

They can steady off all they want then. Damage will be done & sting drawn out of a few of the better travellers come business time.


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Not sure he could help that given his heart troubles. Testament to how good he was that he could still come back and perform as he did. A monster of a horse.
 
Grasshopper said:
Denman: Highest OR (182), Highest RPR (187)
Smad Place: Highest OR (169), Highest RPR (173)
OHO: Highest OR (162), Highest RPR (168)

I make that about 20lbs (or the best part of two-stone) between Denman and On His Own, and will settle for a stone between Denman and Smad Place.

That would have permitted you one :confused: around Smad, rather than the three you used........though those of tender years do tend to get more easily confused, so perhaps that's something to do with it......and maybe the other :confused: was because your brother was also confused.

Thankfully, EC understood what was meant, and has provided his usual comprehensive response.
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I see.

So 'the best part of' only means 'less than three-quarters of' ratings researched to suit an argument?

And I'm of an age where I'm easily confused? As is my brother (whom you've never met).

In that case I'll do the decent thing and leave others to express their view.

You really are a nasty piece of work.
 
Kauto Abu said:
I took an opinion after Ascot late last year that Vautour isn't a gold cup horse. Nothing I've seen or studied from Kempton shows otherwise for me.

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I really hope you're opposing Vautour for better reasons than his run at Ascot! That was like me trying to run a marathon after my Christmas dinner.
 
Read back through the thread Bear & you'll see my reasoning for opposing him. Obviously it's not on Ascot but I will point out many horses at this level come back looking like a pig & still win convincingly. Don Poli himself is one. Mullins would tell you both him & Vautour take most work to get fit in the yard. I'd even have Don Poli's Aintree win on seasonal debut as much more impressive than Vautours.

Overweight or not It was his first race over 20f and that started my line of thinking that his best trip is probably south of that mark (21f). He could end up a bit like Oscar Whiskey. Caught in between distances tho I feel Vautour would be much better over 2m than him.


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Desert Orchid said:
I see.

So 'the best part of' only means 'less than three-quarters of' ratings researched to suit an argument?

And I'm of an age where I'm easily confused? As is my brother (whom you've never met).

In that case I'll do the decent thing and leave others to express their view.

You really are a nasty piece of work.
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I hate to point out the obvious, but if I can't judge your brother having never met him, you obviously aren't in position to judge me. I do, however, pay attention, and you have been knocking around forums long enough, to betray the fact that you're retired, and have been for a while. It doesn't take a genuis to work out that you would be of a certain age.

You know as well as I do that there was something sneerily implicit in your post. It's as transparent to me as was the the speed with which you couldn't wait to tell me that Great Field would be handicapped out of every Festival race he was entered in, not long after I had put him up and he won his prep.

So, forgive me if my last post upsets your wafer-thin sensibilities, but when push comes to shove, I prefer to have it out when someone is getting on my tits, rather than pussy-foot around. So stick me on ignore or whatever the equivalent is - your tiresome 'elder statesman above the fray' act doesn't interest me in the slightest anyway.
 
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Kauto Abu said:
Read back through the thread Bear & you'll see my reasoning for opposing him. Obviously it's not on Ascot but I will point out many horses at this level come back looking like a pig & still win convincingly. Don Poli himself is one. Mullins would tell you both him & Vautour take most work to get fit in the yard. I'd even have Don Poli's Aintree win on seasonal debut as much more impressive than Vautours.

Overweight or not It was his first race over 20f and that started my line of thinking that his best trip is probably south of that mark (21f). He could end up a bit like Oscar Whiskey. Caught in between distances tho I feel Vautour would be much better over 2m than him.


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KA, are you seriously trying to compare Vautour with Oscar Whisky?

I think you need a lie-down.
 
I'm really surprised to hear the news that Road To Riches could still go for The Ryanair.

I thought he got the Gold Cup trip really well last year and he was actually my fancy for this year's renewal.
 
Grasshopper said:
KA, are you seriously trying to compare Vautour with Oscar Whisky?

I think you need a lie-down.
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Well yes but only in the sense that I think time will prove Vautours best trip is 20f like Oscar Whisky who could never do it once stepped up.


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Gaz's Way De Solzen said:
I'm really surprised to hear the news that Road To Riches could still go for The Ryanair.

I thought he got the Gold Cup trip really well last year and he was actually my fancy for this year's renewal.
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Although I wouldn't back him for the Gold Cup I agree it's a ridiculous decision should they make it. You can forgive Ricci/Mullins pushing for Vautour to go for the blue ribband but sending a horse the other way out of greed and an attempt to save face is a travesty. Meade is desperate to run him in the Gold Cup but of course some wanker who runs an airline knows better.

Note: 'wanker' gets through the filter.
 
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Given O' Leary has four Gold Cup prospects and needs one for Ryanair he has a straight choice between Valseur lido and R2R.
Leopardstown suggests VL the better horse over an extended trip on extreme going with R2R a freer running type that could well win a Ryanair Chase given his Galway Plate rout. Gold Cup is The Holy Grail to Noel Meade and who can blame him but he has only one runner to worry about, Giggi have four.
In any case it is the Brother calls the shots not the polite one !
 
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Grasshopper said:
I hate to point out the obvious, but if I can't judge your brother having never met him, you obviously aren't in position to judge me. I do, however, pay attention, and you have been knocking around forums long enough, to betray the fact that you're retired, and have been for a while. It doesn't take a genuis to work out that you would be of a certain age.

You know as well as I do that there was something sneerily implicit in your post. It's as transparent to me as was the the speed with which you couldn't wait to tell me that Great Field would be handicapped out of every Festival race he was entered in, not long after I had put him up and he won his prep.

So, forgive me if my last post upsets your wafer-thin sensibilities, but when push comes to shove, I prefer to have it out when someone is getting on my tits, rather than pussy-foot around. So stick me on ignore or whatever the equivalent is - your tiresome 'elder statesman above the fray' act doesn't interest me in the slightest anyway.
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I have frequently given away my age on here. I don't have a problem with that. I'm proud of it but you've concluded that my age calls my judgment into question. So ageism is one of your problems.

You regularly spout figures on here, seldom with figures to back it up and when they are questioned you attack the questioner rather than provide evidence other than that it is your opinion (and you're perfectly entitled to it). You've never my brother as I have never met you but both you and I have posted on here enough to have an ida of each other's viewpoints. He hasn't posted on here since the late 1990s and hasn't visited the place since he left. Yet you can label him old and [therefore] confused?

You mention my "wafer-thin sensibilities" because I used emoticons rather than typing a sentence or short paragraph to say I couldn't see how you could arrive at your assertions about the relative abilities of some horses and take that meaning "something sneerily implicit"? I would suggest you are judging me by your own timy-minded standards.

My comments about Great Field were intended to be helpful and were speedy it was because I thought it might be an idea to urge caution in terms of getting involved ante-post. Again, this is something you've obviously taken the wrong way. And you reckon I'm sensitive?

Obviously I get on your tits for some reason. That's your problem.

You've suggested I put you on ignore. Consider my having taken your suggestion on board.

But there is no way I am posting anything further on this forum for you to ridicule.
 
Good.

Now can someone please post something about the Gold Cup that I disagree with, in order that I can attack them, please. :)
 
Vautour's jumping is shite. It'll get found out at championship pace and I reckon he'll be lucky to make it over 3 fences. Even if he does Don Poli has more tactical speed and will do him for toe coming down the hill.
 
Grasshopper said:
Shocking scenes.

This madness must stop.

Something should be done.

Preferably by someone else.
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The irish preview that is on at the moment...every single person on the stage said Vautour is a cert and should be backed at 3/1 NRNB....for the Ryanair!!! :)
 
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