Brexit

Brexit, Stay or Leave.

  • Stay

    Votes: 28 59.6%

  • Leave

    Votes: 19 40.4%
  • Total voters
    47
I think that those that suggest we "travel more" should go to the multicultural heavens that are Madrid Rome Paris and warsaw

what a load of crap

britains assimilation and welcome to immigrants goes back far further and is far more open than the vast majority of eu states. Whatever anyone says about ukip farage and his mates immediately fire off any member who touches racism

even farage has explicitly stated that he is pro immigration but quite reasonably in many eyes believes it should be managed under our own control

so let's look at a few parties doing well in the eru shall we? Wonder where they are getting their votes from

and it's hardly a secret that many from ethnic minorities feel far more accepted and free of prejudice here than in Munich or vienna

we can all give examples but a Japanese lady I know who is well travelled right across the continent finally settled in the uk largely because it was the very first country she wasn't sneered or stared at.
 
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Hamm said:
:) Correct! I could have voted had I stayed in London but whilst London can at times be very good (though overall quality of life poor compared to other big cities in Europe), I got out as forays outside London was like travelling into a different world altogether.
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Don't you live and work in Paris? If so forays outside Paris are also like traveling into a different world. I live in Lyon these days and even that is another world but visiting outside areas from here is another world again.
 
The result as expected was 'more or less 50/50' at 52/48. Had it been a small swing the other way to 48/52 would those now labelling the British en-masse with invective such as 'stupid' 'xenophobic' 'retards' be swamping us with compliments instead? That would be equally daft wouldn't it?

I think it almost certain that it was the army of 'working class' - which I agree is an outdated but still useful generic term - Labour voters siding with Leave that swung it and I'm of the opinion that they voted this way because they wanted to give 'the establishment who doesn't care about us' a kick up the jacksy rather than strongly-held convictions that they'd be better off outside the EU

This impressionable demographic love 'charismatic' rabble-rousers and in Farage and Johnson they had their wish fulfilled

Despite having being a lukewarm Remainer I do feel apprehensive this morning: a feeling I've never had after any general election

52/48 - an unhealthily divided country

Save that fat stogie for the morning after the next Scottish independence referendum Grasshopper. My roll-up tasted foul
 
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clivex said:
I think that those that suggest we "travel more" should go to the multicultural heavens that are Madrid Rome Paris and warsaw

what a load of crap

britains assimilation and welcome to immigrants goes back far further and is far more open than the vast majority of eu states. Whatever anyone says about ukip farage and his mates immediately fire off any member who touches racism

even farage has explicitly stated that he is pro immigration but quite reasonably in many eyes believes it should be managed under our own control

so let's look at a few parties doing well in the eru shall we? Wonder where they are getting their votes from

and it's hardly a secret that many from ethnic minorities feel far more accepted and free of prejudice here than in Munich or vienna

we can all give examples but a Japanese lady I know who is well travelled right across the continent finally settled in the uk largely because it was the very first country she wasn't sneered or stared at.
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Very general statements you are making there. I've lived in Germany, Italy, Spain and now France and have extensively traveled thruout many other European countries and can categorically state this is not true.
It is true that in every one of those (except Spain) you have Farage like players that prey on the darker side of humanity with race baiting and nationalist saber rattling.
Actually lived in Munich for almost three years and while Bavarians have a nationalistic bent (which is sometimes viewed with derision in the rest of Germany). This is a country that took on more immigrants in 2015 than Britain took on in the last 9 years. A referendum to leave the EU would be soundly defeated in Germany even though they are by far the biggest contributor to the EU (simplistic data point but it has been used here to state the UK's point)

Italians do carry some xenophobic baggage with them but as a foreigner I met nothing but friendly helpful people while living there. From Milan to Sicily always the same.

The French are definitely very insular and I do see trouble on the horizon going forward for this country.

My wife is Spanish and this is a country, thankfully, that is not currently tinged with the nationalist trumpeting you find in many other EU countries.
They have a general election on Sunday and the most right wing party there is the PP who currently govern and they are a fry cry removed from say a Farage like creation.
Very possible that they will suffer defeat on Sunday.


Spaniards imo are the most progressive, outward looking people in Europe and hopefully it will stay that way for a long time.
 
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Germany's eurosceptisim polling is almost exactly the same as the most uks. More money thrown at failed states and we will see how that goes

germany believes it needed the immigrants. Unlike the uk it has a rapidly shrinking population. We shall see how that pans out

ive travllled to most cities in Europe too and it is immediately striking how most are far more monocultural than London and most big British cities. I'm not having that
 
brendanr said:
Don't you live and work in Paris? If so forays outside Paris are also like traveling into a different world. I live in Lyon these days and even that is another world but visiting outside areas from here is another world again.
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Agree it's very different but just not in the respect that I found in the UK. People here are insular as you say, but overall much better educated. A great barometer of this is the media - the tabloid press in England, which is enormous, is essentially for the uneducated portion of society, with simplistic stories that either manipulate or titillate them.

Tabloids don't exist in France. That as much as anything is a decent reflection on the different mentalities of England v France.
 
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If the Sun did advocate Leave then that wold do it every time.

Murdoch's revenge for the public enquiry into his empire?
 
clivex said:
Again another stupid comment

france has a very low newspaper readership full stop. Less than half of britains which is relatively high

the French are presumably "so educated" they don't need to take on any further news or opinion at all

http://www.nationmaster.com/country...-and-periodicals/Circulation/Daily/Per-capita
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If I have this right - you're boasting about the fact England has more newspaper readers than France even though what most of them read are tabloids for degenerates?

You should read what you right before you post it..
 
what do you mean boasting? You make sweeping stupid claims about the French and their supposed education and yet they have the one of the lowest newspaper readerships in europe. I think I would far rather some "degenerate" was taking in the mirror or the mail than not taking in any news or comment at all
 
In the spirit of reconciliation I would urge you disappointed folks not to be so pessimistic of what the future holds.
(Grass, you are so full of doom-and-gloom, it's not real.) :D

The stock-exchange dips, the forex volatilities, will be temporary. Things will settle down.
Trade won't be crucified; Britain will be open to trade with the entire world and not just a dying economic union of the EU. (It's so deathly that its corpse will be laid in the ground within five years, anyway). Trade exist because of people, not because of bureaucratic agreements.

Think positively everyone. Britain has a bright future in the world.
 
harry said:
It would be quite amusing for the Euro16 final to be....

England v Wales :ninja:
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It's a possibility that the Euros have stirred up nationalist feelings and played a small part in deciding a close race but I certainly belong to the group that makes the ambivalent attitude of the Labour leadership up there with the main factors. The contribution of the Sun can't be overstated either and it would be no coincidence that Liverpool voted to remain.
Colin would know better than me but I'd have thought that the Tata Steel affair was the clincher in south Wales. I'm still very surprised that north east Wales voted to leave given the number of jobs that depend on Airbus. There was no talk in the pubs along the lines of Leave with the general mood a mix of Remain or abstain. There is, in my opinion, little or no chance that central government will come up with anything like the money we'll be losing in EU funding.
Overall, it will need the financial markets to settle down before a proper assessment can be made but the leavers don't appear to be in a hurry to start the clock ticking on the Lisbon protocol. I don't have much doubt that Johnson will be PM come autumn which is very bad news. The man sees himself as a second Churchill who was a disastrous domestic politician. Best case scenario would be an early general election where Corbyn would be thrashed 3 years earlier than is the current likelihood.
 
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icebreaker said:
In the spirit of reconciliation I would urge you disappointed folks not to be so pessimistic of what the future holds.
(Grass, you are so full of doom-and-gloom, it's not real.) :D

The stock-exchange dips, the forex volatilities, will be temporary. Things will settle down.
Trade won't be crucified; Britain will be open to trade with the entire world and not just a dying economic union of the EU. (It's so deathly that its corpse will be laid in the ground within five years, anyway). Trade exist because of people, not because of bureaucratic agreements.

Think positively everyone. Britain has a bright future in the world.
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This, I'm afraid, is complete cobblers.

"Britain" will cease to exist, the moment they finish counting the votes in the second Scottish IndyRef.

Also, I'm not entire sure a) where I'm demonstrating "doom and gloom" since the result, and b) why I alone would be singled-out for this treatment.
 
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icebreaker said:
What can be concluded from the results is that many of those on here who thought themselves to be in sync with the mood of the working-class and middle England have been proved to be anything but that! This was conspicuous before the vote when they forecast a resounding Remain win
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Is this the sort of thing you mean?

icebreaker said:
The Pound is soaring; the stock-market is rising; bookies call it 1/3 for Remain.
It's a lock, a certainty, surely?
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icebreaker said:
The stock-exchange dips, the forex volatilities, will be temporary. Things will settle down.
Trade won't be crucified; Britain will be open to trade with the entire world and not just a dying economic union of the EU. (It's so deathly that its corpse will be laid in the ground within five years, anyway). Trade exist because of people, not because of bureaucratic agreements.

Think positively everyone. Britain has a bright future in the world.
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this is not exActly like that
the problem is not volatility
the markets react going Down and the pound going Down because it will be bad for gb and for their business

the irony is the people who will poorer for this are the ones thatvoted it.


it is a system problem, the conservative having a stupid like Camerón making this referéndum

what would be good about all this disaster is if people talking the responsability of their acts, but i doubt most of them will not even understand what they have done.
 
Maybe Scotland could join with the Republic and Northern Ireland as a federal Celtic state that would have membership of the EU via the Republic.
 
sunybay said:
this is not exActly like that
the problem is not volatility
the markets react going Down and the pound going Down because it will be bad for gb and for their business

the irony is the people who will poorer for this are the ones thatvoted it.


it is a system problem, the conservative having a stupid like Camerón making this referéndum

what would be good about all this disaster is if people talking the responsability of their acts, but i doubt most of them will not even understand what they have done.
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No sorry, I don't like Cameron but he reacted to the will of the people to have a referendum. For once politicians in this country listened to the people to give us the choice. He obviously thought he could win, all the polls thought the Remain campaign had it sealed, all the bookies did. If the 28% of people who didn't get off their arses and go and vote, had, the result may have been different but they didn't.
Any country not ruled by a dictatorship regime, would demand free elections more frequently than one every forty years or so to vote on something which has a daily effect on a lot of people's lives. It was well overdue.
 
G-G said:
No sorry, I don't like Cameron but he reacted to the will of the people to have a referendum. For once politicians in this country listened to the people to give us the choice. He obviously thought he could win, all the polls thought the Remain campaign had it sealed, all the bookies did. If the 28% of people who didn't get off their arses and go and vote, had, the result may have been different but they didn't.
Any country not ruled by a dictatorship regime, would demand free elections more frequently than one every forty years or so to vote on something which has a daily effect on a lot of people's lives. It was well overdue.
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Whats next?
a referéndum asking people if they want to have 3 months of holidays paíd?

do it and You will see the ResultResult
 
G-G said:
No sorry, I don't like Cameron but he reacted to the will of the people to have a referendum. For once politicians in this country listened to the people to give us the choice.
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More the will of the right-wing of his party than that of the people I'd proffer

I don't hold with the belief that the people insisted on this referendum nor that there is a widespread 'hate of the EU' (to use Clivex's words). Widespread dissatisfaction at a flawed edifice sure, but had the seed of a referendum not been sown by politicians I don't think the electorate would have been unduly concerned

Like I say, Cameron called this in order to placate his detractors within parliament, not those outwith that cloister. He was counting on landing a knockout punch but he got a kick in the balls. He brandished the sword and died by it; we have to reap what was sown amongst the weeds
 
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