Brexit

Brexit, Stay or Leave.

  • Stay

    Votes: 28 59.6%
  • Leave

    Votes: 19 40.4%

  • Total voters
    47
2 questions about Scotland:

- is a unilateral second independence referendum binding on the UK government?

- I believe that Brexit terms have to be endorsed by the Scottish parliament. Can this be withheld completely or would it just be a delaying tactic?
 
Think it's a bit early to say unequivocally that this is not going to have an impact on businesses leaving. What we will surely see more of are businesses relocating staff to the continent.

which businesses and why? Only identifiable that I can see are forex traders .

It's an absolute pain relocating. A nightmare, especially with unwilling staff. Banking staff want London or New York. In fact that's the case with Most professional services

i I worked for an ad agency that a good few top staff because.... Wait for this

.... it located from soho to west kensington

Its ts not as if the uk is suddenly a ten hour flight away because we left the eu is it? Switzerland has a huge number of head offices and high level staff in pharma and banking both of which clearly trade right across the eu

im not saying it's an immediate positive on jobs but which ever way I look at it I am convinced the impact on existing roles will be minimal.
 
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I have never felt so depressed about the stupidity of the human race.

Without question the poorer parts of Britain will suffer the worst from the forthcoming recession. I will never understand how people in working class areas allowed Johnson and Farage to sell this pup to them.
 
More lies.

Airbus, founded in 1970 and spread between major plants in Britain, France, Germany and Spain, builds wings for Airbus passenger jets in the UK where the group employs 15,000 people.
With major aircraft investment decisions already taken for the next 10-15 years, Airbus has said its UK operations will not be affected any time soon, but has warned it could reconsider its position in the country in the long term.


what Hamm is posting is what we see so often with useless points he is clearly all at sea with.

i will leave otehrs to decide whether the above quote determines the commitment for the next 10 to 15 years or not

i will also leave others to decide whether this is a clear indication that they are leaving the uk
 
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This forum has gone to populist trolls and baiters, its really not worth the cyber space it inhabits.
 
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There's talk about the human race and its decline but you needn't look any further than on here at times to start seeing a reflection on that.

To be honest, I'd beg to know why every point I make on here is ignored by 90 percent of members?
I make a point, then someone would rather regurgitate my entire point in their own terms than actually just say they agree?
 
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I believe i have given hard facts and reasoning in the face of it marble. throughout this whole thread it has been difficult to find any positive arguments (other than the change from within point which I would almost but into) made by the remain supprters who have generally just trotted out eigthies student politics squealing about English nationalism and the Sun.
 
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I believe i have given hard facts and reasoning in the face of it marble. throughout this whole thread it has been difficult to find any positive arguments made by the remain supprters who have generally just trotted out eigthies student politics squealing about English nationalism and the Sun.

But if we just calm down a second, (and I'm far from the biggest expert on here, still learning etc), surely its all just too early to tell the effect to the economy?
You debating this as if its extremely black and white, its not is it.
You and Hamm are smart enough to know that even if we didn't leave the E.U, nothing is that certain about the world economy these days?

Am I wrong?
 
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Everyone is suffering a hangover including the financial markets, Airbus and Morgan Stanley

Normal, constructive service will be resumed on Monday, one hopes
 
But if we just calm down a second, (and I'm far from the biggest expert on here, still learning etc), surely its all just too early to tell the effect to the economy?
You debating this as if its extremely black and white, its not is it.
You and Hamm are smart enough to know that even if we didn't leave the E.U, nothing is that certain about the world economy these days?

Am I wrong?

i have argued each point raised. Not the general situation. Airbus was brought up by grass and Hamm and swatted away because it was specific and easily dealt with (drone. Will you please actually read the Airbus story...there is every chance there will not even be an eu when they take their next decision)

Your last point is spot on. My overall point is thattthe difference between being in or out is very marginal and I've backed up why I think so. Bigger factors will be more significant

one last point. I believe it was not exclusively immigration that drove this at all. Maybe I need to look at old polls but there has been a growing strong anti eu sentiment. One that could not be shifted.

This is was not specific to the low income districts. Wales has lowest immigration in uk and voted out. Even supposedly europhile Scotland 4/10 voted out

i would date this back to the euro. If that had been managed within a small number of states or simply never implemented then we would be in the eu today

the failure of the euro (which will crash again I believe) simply sent the message that the eu "doesn't know what it's doing". To leave Is a powerful message to send and for many it was based in a complete collapse in confidence with the knowledge that the self same failed decision makers would not be punished or replaced at the polls

it it is a victory against lazy complacent incompetent governance
 
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I see the economy as hobbling along since the 2008 crash, after a revival of growth between 2010 - 2015 in the U.K. I see it getting lower in the next few years. The austerity will increase the deficit long term rather than mitigate it. How leaving the E.U might affect this is fascinating. In the end f it goes tits up, Grass is right, the people who came out so strongly to leave last night will pay the most.
 
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Remainers did not grasp the fact that immigration was the issue for a great number of the working class who haven't seen the benefits of HMG's economic programme. The working class have seen deterioration in the services that HMG provide and blame immigration. Farage and his demand to get back control into elected hands (despite not being elected himself) showed closet becoming open bigotry and lies but hit the sweet spot.

I think this is the most likely explanation

It was always a stupid referendum to hold, but I was never aware of Europe be a burning everyday issue. It was an issue that preyed on the minds of the political sure, their everyday work was more directly affected by it, and for that reason Cameron assumed that it was more prevalent in the publics list of priorities than it was. I think there was also en element of people not having ever recovered from the recession, and that they could well have adopted a 'what have I got to lose' attitude. The so-called economic recovery was largely confined to certain industries and certain parts of the country, with huge swathes otherwise by-passed. I'd been concerned for years that data was presenting a rosier picture than that which was actually there and a smug London based Westminster were patting themselves on the back for achievements that barely existed

It needs to be acknowledged though that this was a long campaign, and there was no shortage of information. The people can't say they've been 'put away'. I do believe however that its been drip feed process that's run for nearly a decade and in that regard Cameron played more than his fair share in posioning the well both in opposition and in government with his continual cheap shots, undermining of Europe, and mixed messaging. Take an area like immigration which is being clearly cited. It's very difficult for the Prime Minister and his supporters to say that its down to xenophobes etc when only a few months he was describing immigrants as "swarms" and making statements like this "That bomb in Paris, that could have been London. If they had their way, it would be London. I can't stand here and say we are safe from all these threats. We are not". How does he expect people to react when this kind of thing is being drip-fed into the public conscience?

In a similar vein Cameron has been sniping at Europe for years. In opposition he was continually mocking policy areas like The Human Rights Act, Health and Safety legislating and of course The Euro. He happlily employed and laughed along at a Foreign Secretary that described the French as "cheese eating surrender monkey's". It's all corrosive, but you sense the direction of travel started to really change with the Euro crisis and confidence in Europe never recovered

Cameron will doubtless go down as one of the worst Prime Ministers ever (certainly in modern times) but we'll see how it pans out now. It needn't be all doom and gloom, but the UK desperately needs Donald Trump to win in November now (the Americans are going to be livid now that they've lost their European Trojan horse). Personally I'm not as fazed as others, but I can conceed that the decision instinctively feels wrong. I wouldn't be shocked if there's armies of civil servant desperately working on recovering this situation now that the latest politician has caused another right mess for the to try and patch up.

My big fear is just what a succession of right wing conservative governments are capable of visiting on us as a country without the back stop of European legislation, albeit we will need to adopt much of this in order to retain access to the market anyway. Oh well, I've got a whole load of price cuts to process now as sterling drops to a more advantageous level
 
(drone. Will you please actually read the Airbus story...there is every chance there will not even be an eu when they take their next decision)

I'm aware of that, just responding to their CEO's hungover words

Britain will suffer, but I'm sure it will ‎focus even more now on the competitiveness of its economy vis-a-vis the EU and the world at large. But of course, we will review our UK investment strategy, like everybody else will."
Tom EndersCEO, Airbus Group


It's heat of the moment 'emotion and passion'. CEO's I believe, are humans too. Time out, take stock
 
Not read anything on this thread. Lived on the continent most of my life, speak several languages. Find it empowering that uk votes leave despite the massive establishment domination that will stoop to any level to get what it wants,. Many, understandably are focused on own immediate economic concerns balanced against deep personal values.
Europe will not reform and it's not the way Europe is accustomed to governing itself. Europe has a different understanding and experience of freedom and democracy, role of the State and that not a criticism.

Next month new European pension laws will commence creating the European state pension where all funds are pooled. U.K. Could now avoid this.

Scotland - good or bad, if a people want something different,I salute them. They will need to decide on their currency, though.

Europe will implode in our lifetimes. A parliament that cannot Uniate legislation, amend it or change it and presented by 5 unelected men, deemed as neutral but usually failed politicians in their own country.
World is no better or worse for brexit
 
I’m a bit shocked at the level of outbursts about a democratic result. Would we have been equally crowing about a remain result?
Farage is a muppet and a freeloader. Most of those 17m people didn’t vote leave because of immigration – he just hijacked the agenda and is riding the wave. This great country has always been a land of immigrants going back thousands of years and it will continue to be so moving forward.
It is the emerging markets where economic growth is going to come in the future – Asia, Latin America and Africa – not Europe. And now we can go and deal with them directly. Indeed we can resurrect our old Commonwealth links without needing foreign permission – that’s called sovereignty. That will be great for British ingenuity, British skills, British engineering and British trade.
It doesn't mean we will neglect Europe nor will they neglect us in this new global economy.
Yes there will be short term economic repercussions but we will always come back stronger. We are one of the biggest economies in the world. The fact that the French, the Danes and the Dutch [and probably more in the coming weeks] are now also starting to make noises about similar referendums shows that there is something fundamentally wrong with the EU. So now is the time for the fat cats in Brussels to sit up, tighten belts, take note and actually do something about it before it goes any further. That means you Messrs Tusk and Juncker – you don’t **** on a nation that bailed Europe out of its wars twice last century. DC tried and tried to get you to listen and understand but you guys shunned him and I feel sorry for him. At least he is man enough to fall on his sword so respect to him as he had the hardest job.
Anyhow – I’m off to buy a pound of curved bananas.
 
Great thread.If I was a single man I would remortgage the house and invest in some English companies in the next couple of months-the time to buy is when there is blood on the streets.
 
Ftse is 1.9% down. Nothing. It's swung up and down by more than this % a good few times this year

in fact I would read significance into this. It's business as before. Exactly what I have believed from the very beginning

Not in a single day, it hasn't.
 
Given the Morgan Stanley announcement that they are already considering moving 2000 jobs to Dublin can I welcome all board members to join DO in his quest. We need both your labour and your taxes. Thankfully we can bring in all the Poles expelled from Little Britain to build you some fine houses.

Criteria here: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...es-lengthen-as-uk-applications-rise-1.2596656

I ain't coming to work!

(Not unless I absolutely have to.)

I'm coming to enjoy the rest of my retirement.

If I'm allowed.

It looks like we have Mrs O's qualifications sorted. Nobody on my side has so far owned up to having our mother's birth certificate on file anywhere but I know someone has it!
 
Free movement of people is not a requirement of a single market, but accept it is preferable. As a European you would appreciate and fully understand an ambitious young Greek man or Polish woman both with no prospects moving to where their lives could be better from our southern land to our northern land. ( I do not subscribe to the European God of multi-racial integration Coudenhove Kalergi) Further, they are attracted by a freedom they do not experience within themselves- a European is born a citizen and has obligations. His rules are determined by a constitution, not from God, but a Christian Democrat in a coalition govt. An Englishman is born free and determines the limits of his freedom by his interactions- you relationships at work. With friends and family and it is renewed and affirmed every day or moment. It is renewed every day or moment. This is the attraction of the English people's.
 
So, the FTSE100 ends the week 2% Up.
The Pound climbs back to 1.23 at close of trade.

Not the Armageddon I was told would come.
 
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