Brexit

Brexit, Stay or Leave.

  • Stay

    Votes: 28 59.6%

  • Leave

    Votes: 19 40.4%
  • Total voters
    47
clivex said:
I agree with this. On the night itself there was a horrible interview with a bunch of students in Worcester. Ive heard more articulate cabbages.

Still ll they are young enough to have options. They could go and try and get a yoof job in Spain or France couldn't they
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These are the same students who've never had a proper job, hardly made any NI contributions yet they know ******* everything, do me a favour. They end up with a sports science degree and end up being a lifeguard at the local swimming baths.
 
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My adult kids were able to produce a more coherent case to remain than I've seen at any point from the leave campaign. Interestingly they were able to tear the leave propaganda and lies to shreds quite easily. Ironically some of which is already unravelling.

Alternatively I've spoken to any number of leave voters and what I've mostly heard is a case made entirely on immigration, and at times I've heard comments that boarder on racism. In the case of immigration almost all I've spoken to believe that leaving means Immigration will stop!

Not one leave voter I know had even considered the likely break up of the United Kingdom. And all that I've spoken too since the result see this as far worse than staying in Europe.

I also spoke to two people yesterday who didn't realise what the 'true' implications were until yesterday after the result, and would have voted differently if they'd understood. One of which whom has signed the online petition.

So please excuse me from making this unedifying response when I dispair at a fundamental decision for us all that has a vote that includes a large percentage that was based on lack of knowledge, lack of truth, small island mentality, xenophobia, and to some extent racism.

I fully accept this isn't entirely the case. Plenty have voted to leave purely based on a lack of trust of the EU, but I reckon that is a much smaller percentage based on all of the conversations I've had over the last few months.

Such a fundamental decision for the future of this country based on that kind of vote is truly frightening. I genuinely dispair. If any of you have been following foreign media, it's not difficult to see just how much of a laughing stock this nation is right now. Almost every media outlet has jumped on the Google comments, and many are making similar points to those in my post. I've received emails from friends around the world that are shocked that the UK has made this decision. And not a single one thinks it makes sense. And all beleive the vote is based on seriously unhealthy small island mentality. One said that some of commentary from the leave campaign isn't far short of the type of stuff that was coming out of Germany in the thirties, and he expected the British public to see through it. I'm not sure I entirely agree with him I'd add. But it makes me wonder how many others in Europe have taken the same view.

Finally, I have friends in the Polish community, who feel distinctly uncomfortable. There's isnt a single view, and it's shared by most of their community. They feel as though Beitain hates them. If that's true in the Polish community it's surely true in most of the other Eastern European communities too. And probably those from elsewhere in the world.

So I apologise for coming across as being a 'sore loser'. But I'm not feeling very proud to be British right now.
 
Grasshopper said:
It is also a sweeping generalisation to say every older voter has voted in a 'selfish' manner, Col........but clearly many have not accounted for the impact on the younger generation......or possibly they did consider it, and decided there were factors of more importance to their decision.
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I don't know if it's true as there seems to be no hard data but turnout amongst the young (18-24) is said to be significantly less than the old (65+). That being the case and given the close call haven't those young who didn't vote got only themselves to blame for us leaving?

How many of the thousands rolling in mud at Glasto bothered with postal votes I wonder
 
What I can't stand about the consistently arrogant poster above who has never addressed any of the points brought up in the debate, is that he berates others for "lack of knowledge" but hasn't had the guts to front up himself.

In fact amongst the remain posters I can only recall grey and grass ( the health and safety was an excllent point) doing so. And that in itself is very unfortunate for the remainers

The rest has been small minded rhetoric about "island nations". Says plenty.

its all "it's going to be a disaster"

"why?"

"dunno"


i deal with businesses run by poles, Ghanaians , Asians , Australians , Hungarians and so on

im consulting a team with a kosovan Eritrean Burmese and ghanan

without excpetion ion I have never heard anything other than positives about this country both in terms of culture and acceptance and that is entirely without prompting

but supposed conversations are of no interest. Anyone can claim this or that.
 
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Drone said:
I don't know if it's true as there seems to be no hard data but turnout amongst the young (18-24) is said to be significantly less than the old (65+). That being the case and given the close call haven't those young who didn't vote got only themselves to blame for us leaving?

How many of the thousands rolling in mud at Glasto bothered with postal votes I wonder
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Exactly but the difficulty of putting an X in a box is something that would be beyond most of them
 
Go back and read. I made my points many pages ago. You really are a waste of time if that's the best you can manage as a response. And as for arrogance don't even get me started. Your response to Drone above just about says it all about your style of debate.
 
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reet hard said:
I'm an 'older voter', not generally considered racist or senile, and I voted out with my grandkids future firmly in mind.
Like Topsy, the EU has grown too big too quickly, and our exit may well prove the clarion call that brings the over=admistrated monolith to its senses, for the eventual advancenent of us all.
Just hope that megalomanic harridan isn't allowed to lead Scotland out of the UK, in a fit of pique that would benefit neither.
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Well fu*ck me pink. I always had you down as under-40, reet.

It was obvious that Scotland would have another referendum if it was taken out of the EU against it's will, so there's no point wishing it not to happen now.

One of the 'Stay' campaigns biggest sticks in 2014, was the threat of an Independent Scotland self-excluding from the EU. The promise of ongoing EU membership was one of the primary motivations for the No vote. Clearly, if Scotland votes to stay in the EU, but is dragged-out on the back of Brexit, then UK 'democracy' has failed the people of Scotland, and another Indyref is therefore not only desirable, but entirely appropriate, and anything but a fit of pique.
 
I'll also add that I rarely bother posting when your in full flow Clive. I cant imagine a bigger waste of my time reading the absolute drivel you come out with most of the time. You ignore what suits you. You twist people's words. And wilfully misrepresent what they post. Why plough through pages of crap just to find the good points you occasionally make.
 
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Drone said:
I don't know if it's true as there seems to be no hard data but turnout amongst the young (18-24) is said to be significantly less than the old (65+). That being the case and given the close call haven't those young who didn't vote got only themselves to blame for us leaving?

How many of the thousands rolling in mud at Glasto bothered with postal votes I wonder
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Not sure there is anything here reflecting turnout-by-age, Drone, but there are some stats here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028
 
Maruco said:
I'll also add that I rarely bother posting when your in full flow Clive. I cant imagine a bigger waste of my time reading the absolute drivel you come out with most of the time. You ignore what suits you. You twist people's words. And wilfully misrepresent what they post. Why plough through pages of crap just to find the good points you occasionally make.
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Don't "waste" your time then. It's appears that you have been doing so pretty repeatedly doesn't it?

frankly I can only be bothered with those that meet any points head on.
 
Maruco said:
Go back and read. I made my points many pages ago. You really are a waste of time if that's the best you can manage as a response. And as for arrogance don't even get me started. Your response to Drone above just about says it all about your style of debate.
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im not having that. drone asked the question. And I gave a perfectly reasonable explanation that most students are plankheads

as an aside I could give a cracking example of someone I know a little, chatted with yesterday and who went right through the detailed and clear accountability reasons why she voted leave. She talked more than approvingly about "our country" (which made me feel proud of our nation) It would make the Brit haters and guardian readers choke if they heard her deepest African accent. And I'm not talking about a saffie
 
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Interesting breakdown of some demographics by the Financial Times below:

http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2016/06/24/brexit-demographic-divide-eu-referendum-results/

Specifically that last graph illustrates why referendums are slippery slopes.

Two interesting editorials from the Guardian, look away now Clive:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/leavers-take-control?CMP=share_btn_tw
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...boris-johnson-wakes-up-to-the-costs-of-brexit

Then this from the independent;

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...erwhelmingly-votes-in-favour-of-a7101311.html

Finally from the Mail Online these two contributions:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-oh-joy-losers-EU-referendum-Richard-Kay.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...-poor-judgement-weakness-Etonian-cronies.html

I see more clearly now why the Mail is the most popular Daily in the UK.
 
Brief look at both articles from the soon to close smallest circulation daily brendan

both exceptionally poor. The first is just a losers rant at personalities and the second is clueless. It would have been completely the wrong tone for boris to sound triumphant. Also I have a distinct theory here. He's quite complex and a loner by nature ( I know his body guard very well. Great bloke One of my best clients and runs a cracking business An Iranian who loves the uk) and not for me instinctively a yah boo type
 
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Also mail rightly points out the excellence of someone I have long admired. Gisella Stuart
 
I acknowledge your point, Tiggers, but this is a forum for discussion and debate.

Absolute democracy has its flaws eg hanging and even the possibility of compulsory repatriation.
 
clivex said:
Brief look at both articles from the soon to close smallest circulation daily brendan

both exceptionally poor. The first is just a losers rant at personalities and the second is clueless. It would have been completely the wrong tone for boris to sound triumphant. Also I have a distinct theory here. He's quite complex and a loner by nature ( I know his body guard very well. Great bloke One of my best clients and runs a cracking business An Iranian who loves the uk) and not for me instinctively a yah boo type
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Brief look then and love the bodyguard reference. Agree Boris did not have to blow his horn he had his cohort Nigel doing all the blowing for him
I actually think the 2nd article might have hit on something but time will tell. I'd give it at least as much credence as your distinct theory, bodyguard notwithstanding.

Strange that you had no comments on the FT and Independent pieces.
 
I think this is a better result than 52-48 the opposite way.

There are a whole heap of issues to be addressed now and some imaginative thinking is required.

Brussels has to make sure Johnson and the rest don't get away with dragging out the exit procedure. Peter Sutherland is right to point out the divergence between Irish and British objectives in the EU but I'm not convinced the UK should be forced out of the single market, as long as they are forced out of Brussels.

The talk is of Scotland looking to separate from England in order to stay in. But there were words in Sturgeon's speech about staying in which might turn out to be key: "in particular the single market". In other words, might Scotland be prepared to stay in the UK as long as they can stay in the single market?

The Irish government should be looking for a way to keep Northern Ireland in the EU as a beneficiary of the CAP and structural funds. Maybe a modus operandi can be found where it would not have representative rights other than its MEPs but could continue to have free movement and free trade?
 
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