Brexit

Brexit, Stay or Leave.

  • Stay

    Votes: 28 59.6%

  • Leave

    Votes: 19 40.4%
  • Total voters
    47
You'd like to think that there's a reason for the silence of the lambs. Setting up a new political party isn't cheap and there may be discussions going on with potential backers. The other alternative is to do 'a Churchill' and join another existing party, presumably the Lib Dems. Again, Farron has been low profile recently and there may be discussions going on. Although there will be squeals about the necessity for by elections, I'm fairly sure that it's not a constitutional requirement so if May stands by her decision not to hold an early election, they have 4 years to mould the Lib Dems into Democratic Labour and if enough MPs go for it they become the official opposition by default.
 
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to me Clive..this now the second leadership election...no big hitters yet again

in football terms its like getting to penalty shoot out and picking 5 folk from the crowd to take them

we had thi last time..dan jarvis..sitting back let some other daft sod be opposition leader..chukka threw his hat in then out again..probably similar mindset

i wonder what the casual viewer of politics thinks about a party that has two leadertship elections...and both times all the obvious people abstain from standing..it make labour look weak..just based on the standard of people standing for the top job
 
EC1 said:
to me Clive..this now the second leadership election...no big hitters yet again

in football terms its like getting to penalty shoot out and picking 5 folk from the crowd to take them

we had thi last time..dan jarvis..sitting back let some other daft sod be opposition leader..chukka threw his hat in then out again..probably similar mindset

i wonder what the casual viewer of politics thinks about a party that has two leadertship elections...and both times all the obvious people abstain from standing..it make labour look weak..just based on the standard of people standing for the top job
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I agree that perhaps someone with more credibility could have stood but i don't blame them entirely for not doing so. In their minds its already written off
 
but is that what we want in a potential Prime Minister..beaten before they start..last time they had one..was a proper rubbish gathering of candidates..because the big boys couldn't stomach it..and now they have even less stomach for it...not really qualities i want in someone who might one day lead the country..they may be big hitters in the party..but they fall way short of being big hitters outside the party with the sitting back cowardly attitude.

i'm disappointed in them..particularly Benn..who imo should be leader..he leaves Corbyn in the weeds as a politician

Corbyn would probably beat anybody...it isn't the point... i expect the best to stand..this is just a farce of a leadership election now..

keep standing back lads..be nowt left in a bit..how shrewd
 
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I said on another thread that I was considering joining the Labour Party simply so I can vote against Corbyn. I've done it now. It costs £25 and I'd urge as many people as possible to the same. My vote alone won't do a thing but many more can.

This country needs a credible opposition. We won't necessarily get it immediately, but if Corbyn is sidelined I'm sure the heavy hitters will challenge for the leadership within the next four years.

For clarity I'm a lifelong Conservative supporter, but I worry about a free hand for another two or possibly three terms
 
Maruco said:
I said on another thread that I was considering joining the Labour Party simply so I can vote against Corbyn. I've done it now. It costs £25 and I'd urge as many people as possible to the same. My vote alone won't do a thing but many more can.
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I empathise with your honourable motives Maruco and it would be nice to think a sizeable proportion of the 180,000 who've signed up in the last 48 hours have done so for the same reasons, though I rather doubt it

However, this need to resort to a 'tactical membership' is a direct result of the daft move by Labour and then the Conservatives of shifting leadership voting from the parliamentary MPs alone to the general membership. Such a move gives extremists a perfect opportunity to wield power within a democratic party

The 'overwhelming mandate' given to Corbyn last September was due solely to Labour's panic measure after the last general election of permitting the public to join the party for a paltry £3. 'Get in there' said a mass of anarcho-Marxists/Trotskyists etc now masquerading as Momentum

At least Labour have tried to contain the hard-left swell by only permitting those who joined prior to January to vote; and this £25 48-hr 'window' was presumably allowed in the perhaps vain hope that 'normal' folk would join

We'll see, but two frigging months to wait...jeez
 
I agree with sentiments but under no circumstances do i want to see my money end up in the hands of the extremists. Once they have a full grip on the party god only knows where some funding will end up.
 
Waste of time imo, Paul.

The amount of people prepared to pay £25 to join Labour, on the off-chance that their vote might see Corbyn beaten, which may result in a more robust opposition, can probably be counted on however many fingers you can find on the average leper's hand.

Even if Corbyn did lose, you are still left with a massively-divided party, and a Leadership which contains only the flotsam from the New Labour project. You will forgive me if I reckon that Labour will fail to provide that robust opposition, no matter who is in charge.

You would have been better-off adding a £, and spending it on an ante-post Canadian for the Festival!
 
clivex said:
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/moral-case-jeremy-corbyn/

Nick Cohen again

I believe that commentators such as cohen and hodges are far closer to the nub of the matter than elsewhere. They are disgusted because they are labour supporters themselves
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Largely a good read Clive but his point about Britain feeling they 'have to' go along with Saudi Arabia is limp and pathetic; it goes along with it for ££££. He should be more clear about this and criticise it with the vigour he criticises Corbyn.

Otherwise a good read. Funny he writes for the Guardian AND the Spectator!
 
Grasshopper said:
Waste of time imo, Paul.

The amount of people prepared to pay £25 to join Labour, on the off-chance that their vote might see Corbyn beaten, which may result in a more robust opposition, can probably be counted on however many fingers you can find on the average leper's hand.

Even if Corbyn did lose, you are still left with a massively-divided party, and a Leadership which contains only the flotsam from the New Labour project. You will forgive me if I reckon that Labour will fail to provide that robust opposition, no matter who is in charge.

You would have been better-off adding a £, and spending it on an ante-post Canadian for the Festival!
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Agree.

Labour is dead, and the sooner some of the big names/better MPs realise this, and move to take action about a new party the better. Ideally this would be something with the LibDems, a centrist/central left party that could provide adequate or better opposition.

This election (Owen Smith wouldn't even be in a cabinet of govt, let's be honest) is a waste of time, Corbyn is home and hosed.
 
Grasshopper said:
Waste of time imo, Paul.

The amount of people prepared to pay £25 to join Labour, on the off-chance that their vote might see Corbyn beaten, which may result in a more robust opposition, can probably be counted on however many fingers you can find on the average leper's hand.

Even if Corbyn did lose, you are still left with a massively-divided party, and a Leadership which contains only the flotsam from the New Labour project. You will forgive me if I reckon that Labour will fail to provide that robust opposition, no matter who is in charge.

You would have been better-off adding a £, and spending it on an ante-post Canadian for the Festival!
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Agree (but decent intentions all the same)

Labour is dead, and the sooner some of the big names/better MPs realise this, and move to take action about a new party the better. Ideally this would be something with the LibDems, a centrist/central left party that could provide adequate or better opposition.

This election (Owen Smith wouldn't even be in a cabinet of govt, let's be honest) is a waste of time, Corbyn is home and hosed.
 
One day a behind the scenes revelation of the milne/corbyn axis will emerge and i think it will be eye watering. For a start, there is little doubt in my mind that much of the intimidation of mps is coordinated and planned. I wouldn't have bought into it until the clearly orchestrated Ruth Smeeth incident and the arseholes reaction afterwards. The nec vote confirmed the view

What sort of person is this?

Corbin genuinely hates the party and the bulk of its electorate. lets get that straight. If he had an ounce of affection or loyalty towards the party he would have gradually stepped down and carefully anointed a successor ( Flabbot!!!) who's from a similar wing. Yes, the successor may not worship Cuba and venezuela and may also not dabble in holocaust denial but if there was even the slightest wish to see the supposedly underprivileged represented you would team up to ensure you could get some power to do something about it

No one would claim he's the brightest (i actual would have him down as a simpleton) but surely he must realise that he's completely out of his depth. The worst party leader in living memory. No question at all about that

So whats driving him on? Clearly its control of the party and nothing more nothing less.

This is the far left of monty python legend. No compromise and hatred towards their peers who dissent from the party line.

hes an absolute cnt. The genial side is just a front. A really nasty piece of work
 
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Can someone explain to what the relevance of Corbyn's first question was at PMQs yesterday? (on Orgreave) Surely he didn't effectively use his first question on a new PM just to curry favour with union bosses as the new leader election begins?
 
It's like I said a few pages back. He cares more about his pet-hobbies and 'intellectual integrity', than he does about holding the Government to account.

I wouldn't go so far as Clivex does, but there's no doubt he is utterly inept as Leader of the Opposition.
 
Hamm said:
Can someone explain to what the relevance of Corbyn's first question was at PMQs yesterday? (on Orgreave) Surely he didn't effectively use his first question on a new PM just to curry favour with union bosses as the new leader election begins?
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It was unreal.

I loved the trident one. "nuclear weapons didn't stop Rwanda did they!" i mean... where do you start?
 
Corbyn has said that all Labour MPs are likely to be subject to "a full and open selection process" in future, which is about as clear a threat of an impending purge after the Leadership vote, as you could ask for.
 
Grasshopper said:
Corbyn has said that all Labour MPs are likely to be subject to "a full and open selection process" in future, which is about as clear a threat of an impending purge after the Leadership vote, as you could ask for.
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So the promise of no mandatory reselection is out of the window? I haven't read this up but this was clearly the plan all along.

You can just imagine what labour mps are thinking of him and his cronies now. Flood a local branch with smelly loser students and kick out some hardworking local mp of some years standing.
 
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As I've said previously I am not a Corbyn supporter - but I find it quite extraordinary that a conservative supporter has joined the Labour Party in order to vote against him. Extraordinary behaviour imo.

The cries that I am hearing from Labour supporters are that the £25 charge is ruling out large swathes of the people who Labour are supposed to be protecting from voting (disabled, unemployed etc), that the requirement for MP re-selection is due to the infiltration of right-wingers into the party during the Blair/Brown years (and they definitely have a point there) and other rhetoric of a similar nature.

I am not in favour of a return to 1970's Labour. Nor am I in favour of a return to Brown style Labour. I actually think that the sooner a split happens the better - at least for one election we need to see how much the electorate, rather than the membership of the Labour Party, want a truly left-wing opposition. 1983 showed that the votes (if not the seats) were split fairly evenly between the SDP/Lib Dem alliance and Labour. I think these days that would be a win for an SDP - I don't believe that the majority of left-leaning folks out there want a return to the 1970's, they just don't want a choice of Tories or Tory-light.
 
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clivex said:
So the promise of no mandatory reselection is out of the window? I haven't read this up but this was clearly the plan all along.

You can just imagine what labour mps are thinking of him and his cronies now. Flood a local branch with smelly loser students and kick out some hardworking local mp of some years standing.
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You're just ranting pish now, like a person with rabies frothing at the mouth. Have a sit down and watch some nice test cricket.

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Grasshopper said:
Corbyn has said that all Labour MPs are likely to be subject to "a full and open selection process" in future, which is about as clear a threat of an impending purge after the Leadership vote, as you could ask for.
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which is exactly why..it wasn't a shrewd move time biding either at the last leadership election or this one..those shrewdies like Jarvis..Benn Chukka and Hunt will be lucky to even be mps never mind holding back for future leadership

sitting back was a real daft move imo...the only way that either of those will be leaders of a party is if the split from labour..which clearly we all think will happen..but have they got the backbone to break away?..i'm not seeing it..what i am hearing is a desperate clinging on to Smith beating him and even the thought of corbyn winning isn't an option in their heads..just daft..ignoring what will happen..sort of wishing it away.

i'm starting to think they will just go along with corbyn as leader and keep their gobs shut..no one seems to have a backbone out of those 4..there is only Owen Smith + Angela Eagle had the bottle to try and stop him..others are spineless..and its that spinelessness taht makes me think setting up a new party will be beyond them...it would mean actually making a big decision..which seems beyond them.
 
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