Cheltenham 2020 / 2021

Frankel said:
Ratings may not have much between them but think Epatante deals with her easily in a Champion.
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I don't disagree with the outcome but there isn't that much between them

Epatante is a slip of a thing and easy on the eye, Honey won a point

Honey , if she were to beat the boys at xmas will have to go champion
 
Epatante looked good last weekend but let's not forget she beat Sceau Royal who despite looking good this season was beaten out of sight when he ran in the Champion and is unlikely to have improved significantly since at the age of 8 and the 147 rated Ribble Valley in receipt of the 7lb allowance.

True she looked good in doing it but we can all be guilty of falling for horses that travel into the final stages of race on the bridle and accelerate away whereas horses like Honeysuckle would probably have won further by virtue of grinding them into submission from some way out.

I'm not suggesting Honeysuckle would win, just that there is hardly anything between them and Epatante is more about speed. I can't believe for one second she'd travel upsides Honeysuckle in that manner coming to the last and if Honeysuckle were to really wind it up as they turn into the straight then her more assured stamina could come into play.

Epatante beat Sharjah and Darver Star in one of the worst renewals of the race leading into it that I can remember.
 
The only way Honeysuckle gets that type of race is if she makes her own pace. HdB doesn't have anything else to do the job for her. If she has to do that I can only see one outcome and that's Epatante sprinting past her after being covered up for a mile and a half. She wouldn't be quick enough to get Epatante off the bridle. And if she doesn't make her own pace she's cooked anyway, because Epatante is clearly the quicker of the two.

I know people will say she blew up at the weekend, but I don't agree. She was hardly peddling. That race was also over her optimum trip , and Ronald Pump who is a stayers contender was finishing fastest of all.

Over their correct trip I agree there's possibly not too much in it. Although I'd still rate Epatante higher. Over two miles on the sharp old course, barring a fall, I'd bet my entire bank on Epatante at evens the pair.
 
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Maruco said:
The only way Honeysuckle gets that type of race is if she makes her own pace. HdB doesn't have anything else to do the job for her. If she has to do that I can only see one outcome and that's Epatante sprinting past her after being covered up for a mile and a half. She wouldn't be quick enough to get Epatante off the bridle. And if she doesn't make her own pace she's cooked anyway, because Epatante is clearly the quicker of the two.

I know people will say she blew up at the weekend, but I don't agree. She was hardly peddling. That race was also over her optimum trip , and Ronald Pump who is a stayers contender was finishing fastest of all.

Over their correct trip I agree there's possibly not too much in it. Although I'd still rate Epatante higher. Over two miles on the sharp old course, barring a fall, I'd bet my entire bank on Epatante at evens the pair.
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Not Honeysuckle's first time gasping for the line either.
 
Exactly. What do they want? Her winning the Mares Hurdle or place prospects at best in the Champion Hurdle? You'd think the answer is obvious unless they delude themselves and just hope she's something she's not. HdB has surely been around the game long enough to know, and Kenny Alexander didn't get carried away seemed realistic about it last season. Why would that be different this season?
 
Maruco said:
Exactly. What do they want? Her winning the Mares Hurdle or place prospects at best in the Champion Hurdle? You'd think the answer is obvious unless they delude themselves and just hope she's something she's not. HdB has surely been around the game long enough to know, and Kenny Alexander didn't get carried away seemed realistic about it last season. Why would that be different this season?
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Everyone now just aims their horse at the race they will be the shortest price. The difference between winning a mares hurdle and a Champion Hurdle is basically zilch.
 
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That's a really good point. Willie is maybe the exception sometimes, but I'd say if you used that as a rule of thumb you'd be on the money 95 times out of 100.
 
Maruco said:
That's a really good point. Willie is maybe the exception sometimes, but I'd say if you used that as a rule of thumb you'd be on the money 95 times out of 100.
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Name one horse that ran is a race we didn't expect last year?

Janidil in the Ballymore was the biggest surprise to me.
 
Janidil was in the Spud race not the Ballymore which was even more surprising. You'd have thought either the Supreme or the County.
 
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We may see him the County this year though!!! There's a handicap hurdle plot in him, and if he has an entry he's one to jump straight on.
 
I meant the AB. Was a strange race for him to run in given his mark. The way he jumps fences they would be crazy to go back hurdling right now. He looks proper.
 
Asterion Forlonge was more of a stayer than a supreme horse. Was surprised at that one.

But I couldnt see Honeysuckle getting close to Epatante, especially over 2m. Jumping will be found out.
 
Slim said:
I meant the AB. Was a strange race for him to run in given his mark. The way he jumps fences they would be crazy to go back hurdling right now. He looks proper.
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They must have known Saint Roi was too, but opted for the County because of his mark. Janidil has a mark that he'd potentially win just the same way. Also that run in the Bartlett still smells now. I doubt they'd feel confident about beating Shishkin or Envoi Allen, and there's other races for him over fences unless something unfortunate happens to either of those two.

Each way any race with Hills is the only way to play him antepost.
 
Slim said:
I meant the AB. Was a strange race for him to run in given his mark. The way he jumps fences they would be crazy to go back hurdling right now. He looks proper.
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Interestingly Janidil ran in 2019 version of the Tramore maiden hurdle won by Saint Roi in 1020-he was unlucky enough to run into Notebook.Will be interesting to see where Willie sends him.
 
Slim said:
I meant the AB. Was a strange race for him to run in given his mark. The way he jumps fences they would be crazy to go back hurdling right now. He looks proper.
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In all of the handicaps he was entered at the festival there was money for him; J P Mc had them covered and dually won them. The Balleymore meant taking on Envoi Allen, they already had two bullets in the Supreme.....he literally looked like he went there for the experience.. Cruised down the hill to join the leaders and wasn't given a hard time.

They can go anywhere with him; judging by the money for him in the handicaps, he still sits pretty over hurdles too.
 
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Willie does his own thing and while his hurdle mark looks exploitable he's is electric over fences. Why on earth would they mess around with him?
 
Slim said:
Willie does his own thing and while his hurdle mark looks exploitable he's is electric over fences. Why on earth would they mess around with him?
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you are right...J P has a wealth of talent at his disposal, he will no doubt have bullets for every race!
 
Maxbet said:
you are right...J P has a wealth of talent at his disposal, he will no doubt have bullets for every race!
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I'm really sweet on him. The cynic in me thought because of his hurdle rating they could get him absolutely fired in over fences too being tricky.

But watching back the AB that didn't make sense. There was no messing on chasing debut. From the from and an immaculate round of jumping. He could be very very good.
 
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You don’t start at a Grade 1 track unless you have Grade 1 aspirations.

Wpm will keep Janidil and Asterion apart , one to Limerick the other Leopardstown.

Unexcepted will be campaigned with handicaps in mind later in season, a good jumper but his race in Tipp fell apart like Slim says. Not a G1 horse
 
I respectfully disagree with your view on the Tipperary race, RP.

It didn’t fall apart - Unexcepted pulled it apart.

Is he a Grade 1 horse? Maybe time will prove he isn’t, but it’s a bit early to be calling him nothing more than a handicapper, given he beat a 130-odd rated hurdler with his head in his chest.
 
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redundant pal said:
You don’t start at a Grade 1 track unless you have Grade 1 aspirations.

Wpm will keep Janidil and Asterion apart , one to Limerick the other Leopardstown.
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These two could be in the same race and they would keep apart...Asterion is dangerous, will kill himself or the jockey sooner or later....couldn't jump a hurdle, from what I saw in his sole chase, even going right-handed he managed to fly violently out to the right, landing almost on top of one fence...If you back this horse, make sure you're hiding behind the couch, with amplivox on!!
 
Diamond Geezer said:
Cheltenham Racourse is being seriously considered as a mass covid vaccination centre, which depending when any such system begins,may affect either one or both of the two January meetings and of course the Festival. Whether all or part of the racecourse is unclear but I suspect the Centaur may be one option which could be utilised with racegoers using the Hall Of Fame entrance and the North entrance.The Jockey Club and the NHS are holding discussions this week.
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https://www.racingpost.com/news/lat...nation-hubs-after-pfizer-jabs-approval/461622
 
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