Constitution Hill

Beef or Salmon said:
"He doesn’t have the pizzazz of Faugheen, or the speed of Hurricane Fly, but he has other things. He jumps well and he's so consistent so hopefully we can turn the tables this year. I don’t know if we’re better but we’re stronger"

Is the quote from the Racing Post and needs to be read in the context of the full conversation, he actually dismisses the idea of comparing former Champions, just before that quote.
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No, it's the RTV stable tour so maybe it's heavily edited from the actual comments.
 
With you now, BoS. Yes, different interpretations of what might have been said.

It wold be could if there was an unedited video of him talking or an unedited transcript.
 
I just think ( probably wrong ) Nicky wasn’t happy running him till Nico was back riding; he knows those horses inside out.
 
WPM reckons State Man is a stronger,fitter horse this season whih suggests he may take CH on in the jumping stakes. Be a pleasure to watch, but I doubt he'll turn the form around?
 
reet hard said:
WPM reckons State Man is a stronger,fitter horse this season whih suggests he may take CH on in the jumping stakes. Be a pleasure to watch, but I doubt he'll turn the form around?
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It's unlikely, but we simply don't know for a few reasons, CH most likely has also progressed, but there is no evidence and there is clear evidence of State Man's progression. We also have no idea what CH will find if he comes under pressure. Now that is because he has never had to find, and logic would suggest he'll find plenty- he does everything else with perfection. This is beauty of sport, there is always doubt.

And of course there is the third scenario, State Man has improved, and CH has stood still and as a result they end up taking each other on way too early, setting it up for a fast finisher like Zarak the Brave or Pied Piper!

Only 4 weeks to the greatest show on earth!!!!
 
Beef or Salmon said:
...We also have no idea what CH will find if he comes under pressure. Now that is because he has never had to find, and logic would suggest he'll find plenty- he does everything else with perfection.
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My reading of SR's analysis would be that CH put himself under pressure when recording those fractions so I wouldn't fear the idea of any horse trying to put it up to him.

He will laugh at any attempt to get him off the bit.
 
It is fair to suggest State Man has improved. It certainly looks that way but at his age he has every right to. Then who is to say Constitution Hill will not also improve although improving on perfection is less likely. If you have any doubts about the outcome in March.

.Imaging you were given 10k to put on any horse at Cheltenham which horse do you think is the most likely to give you a return.
 
In assessing his brief career, we should also remember that CH scared off connections of a dual Champion Hurdle winner, before last year’s race. Honeysuckle certainly would have raced against SM last year, but De Bromhead and co knew she would have been blown away by CH - hence they chose the easier Mares Hurdle route. It’s the race he didn’t have, that is possibly proving the most instructive.
 
I have to say, I’m somewhat unconvinced by claims that State Man has progressed since last season.

For me, he has been effectively despatching Impaire Et Passe and Bob Olinger with similar authority as he did Vauban in the Irish G1s last season, and I don’t think he has been required to improve in doing so. Even if the ratings suggest he has, it is (in my view) because they have over-rated IEP and BO at two miles. Both are self-evidently better over further, and likely not as good as Vauban at the minimum trip.

To be honest, I think all the “We’ve improved - CH has been unsighted” is little more than attempt to get into the heads of Henderson and de Boinville before the Festival……and I don’t reckon it will be particularly successful.
 
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The only thing I’ll add is that I’d much prefer 2/7 State Man w/o Constitution Hill than 1/4 Constitution Hill.
 
Grasshopper said:
I have to say, I’m somewhat unconvinced by claims that State Man has progressed since last season.

For me, he has been effectively despatching Impaire Et Passe and Bob Olinger with similar authority as he did Vauban in the Irish G1s last season, and I don’t think he has been required to improve in doing so. Even if the ratings suggest he has, it is (in my view) because they have over-rated IEP and BO at two miles. Both are self-evidently better over further, and likely not as good as Vauban at the minimum trip.

To be honest, I think all the “We’ve improved - CH has been unsighted” is little more than attempt to get into the heads of Henderson and de Boinville before the Festival……and I don’t reckon it will be particularly successful.
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I agree.
 
barjon said:
He’ll need to have improved a ton just to get within shouting distance :)
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Agree,particularly when it's considered CH's never been extended thus far;regardless of pace or opposition.
Class will out,imo.
 
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The disappointing thing about Isty was that once he was in his prime there was never really anything good enough to force him into showing us how truly brilliant he was.

In the same way, it disappointed me that Constitution Hill wasn't asked to show his true superiority in disposing of State Man last March.

IMS, I think I had backed him to win by 10+ lengths and maybe that's driving the disappointment.

That's a brilliant wee video. I'd thought maybe it was going to be one of his Champion Hurdles but he looks amazing.
 
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Grasshopper said:
I have to say, I’m somewhat unconvinced by claims that State Man has progressed since last season.
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On this - it is maybe hard to say that he is a better horse, there is a death of opposition to really base it on

You have to take it when they say he has strenghtened, he has remained his consistency and he is winning his races with minimal fuss.

At worst he hasn't regressed, which is a fear when a good horse meets a superior horse ( Hurricane Fly/Peddlers cross)
 
granger said:
You have to take it when they say he has strenghtened, he has remained his consistency and he is winning his races with minimal fuss.

At worst he hasn't regressed, which is a fear when a good horse meets a superior horse ( Hurricane Fly/Peddlers cross)
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As I understand it, "strengthening" doesn't necessarily translate into more speed. Perhaps someone like Jinnyj can elaborate but I think it means the horse can maybe carry weight better or maybe stay further but without necessarily going any faster.

Certainly his form this season is no better - so far - than last season but he is winning easily. His races to date have been little more than training gallops against rivals content to target second place at best. There must be races over here that C Hill could just as easily target, or clerks of courses should at least consider framing races that allow C Hill to run in. Maybe that way they'd get a few more thou on the gate and/or TV coverage to offset some of the prize money needed to tempt connections into running.
 
Strengthening Just is as it says...getting stronger rather than faster necessarily. But if a horse is at its maximum strength then it has the potential to run at its fastest, if that makes sense. Whereas a weaker or more immature horse may have that speed but is not able to sustain it for very long.
 
Desert Orchid said:
As I understand it, "strengthening" doesn't necessarily translate into more speed. Perhaps someone like Jinnyj can elaborate but I think it means the horse can maybe carry weight better or maybe stay further but without necessarily going any faster.

Certainly his form this season is no better - so far - than last season but he is winning easily. His races to date have been little more than training gallops against rivals content to target second place at best. There must be races over here that C Hill could just as easily target, or clerks of courses should at least consider framing races that allow C Hill to run in. Maybe that way they'd get a few more thou on the gate and/or TV coverage to offset some of the prize money needed to tempt connections into running.
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Horses if filling out will be more physically stronger can be expected to improve, travel stronger and remain a higher cruising speed.

On SM and speed, I would think the Christmas run could be viewed as his "paciest" run to date
 
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