Desperate Dan
Senior Jockey
I think your posts would benefit from less of the foul mouthed abuse (just a suggestion
). A bit "Tommy Robinson" at times, which I`m sure you are not.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Tabletop
- Start date
). A bit "Tommy Robinson" at times, which I`m sure you are not.I think your posts would benefit from less of the foul mouthed abuse (just a suggestion
Well when you get those on the left here referring to tories as vermin/scum etc etc then what do you expect? Besides what I said was hardly personal abuse.
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Steven Bannon does an excellent daily podcast on the pandemic. Note he lets politics mostly out of it. Live right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNXE1fWfKfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNXE1fWfKfE
Desperate Dan
Senior Jockey
No, agree the abuse wasn`t personal. Call me old-fashioned, but I just do not like or see the necessity for "foul-mouthing", particularly on a public forum and, again I`m probably being overly old-fashioned, were we have lady members. And, I agree, the lefties can be just as bad. As well as not liking it, I think it detracts from a posters argument if it is used. Also, is not the constant sniping at Diane Abbott by all and sundry becoming more and more tiresome. I`ve not much time for her but much of it, to my mind, definitely smacks of racism ( I`m certainly not accusing you of racism). Perhaps the most incompetent Minister of all time is Chris Grayling and you barely hear a word of criticism of him. Yet Ms Abbott is abused at every opportunity!
Anyway, stay safe and keep posting.
Anyway, stay safe and keep posting
.Being dense doesn't make you a good or bad person as a rule but FFS
https:/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-52221688
https:/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-52221688
archie
Senior Jockey
From a personal point of view, my brother is 9 months in on a 12 months prognosis for an oesophageal tumour. He was in hospital for a few days with a chest infection and is now home on his own in isolation in a city centre flat. His chemo is indefinitely suspended. I am unable to visit him. I am his next of kin.
I despair of the loony left and rabid right keyboard warriors who pick a fight to pass the time. Feck off.
We have people on here who have their own and close family issues. We have people on here who have lost relatives and friends. Show a bit of respect.
At the very least, take the time to study the figures from the 20th century pandemics of 1918/19, 1957/58 and 1968/69 for a bit of perspective. Hindsight will be 20:20 vision but at the moment no-one is right and no-one is wrong.
I despair of the loony left and rabid right keyboard warriors who pick a fight to pass the time. Feck off.
We have people on here who have their own and close family issues. We have people on here who have lost relatives and friends. Show a bit of respect.
At the very least, take the time to study the figures from the 20th century pandemics of 1918/19, 1957/58 and 1968/69 for a bit of perspective. Hindsight will be 20:20 vision but at the moment no-one is right and no-one is wrong.
G-G
Senior Jockey
A lady on the local radio this morning who has a brain tumour ( 44, married , Mum to 3 ), said since the COVID-19 all cancer patients have been 'graded' from 1-6, 6 being pallative care. She has been graded as a grade 5, anyone over a grade 4 is having their chemo suspended. She managed to have her last round of treatment by having blood tests done locally, a video call with her consultant and then the chemo at the hospital, but they have told her she was 'lucky' to work round it and cannot for now have any more, but she was saying she does not need to go in to the hospital to have the dosage, her husband could collect it and bring it home for her. She said she and other patients felt they are being treated as second class citizens. She had nothing but praise for everyone in the health care system she has had contact with, but feels she and others will be 'left' to die. She said she knows everyone dies but doesn't want to be robbed of any extra time she might gain if things were as they were/should be for people like her.
People like her will be part of the final figures although not dying from the virus.
People like her will be part of the final figures although not dying from the virus.
gigilo
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- May 5, 2011
- Messages
- 9,702
Hundreds of people are dying in care homes from confirmed or suspected coronavirus without yet being officially counted, the Guardian has learned.
More than 120 residents of the UK’s largest charitable provider of care homes are thought to have died from the virus in the last three weeks, while another network of care homes is reported to have recorded 88 deaths.
'We haven't had time to grieve': care homes struggle as Covid-19 deaths rise
Read more
Care England, the industry body, estimated that the death toll is likely to be close to 1,000, despite the only available official figure for care home fatalities being dramatically lower. The Office for National Statistics said this week that 20 people died in care homes across the whole of England and Wales in the week to 27 March.
The gulf in the figures has prompted warnings that ministers are underestimating the impact of Covid-19 on society’s most frail, and are failing to sufficiently help besieged care homes and workers.
Other homes have reported dozens of deaths as the virus sweeps through vulnerable populations looked after by care workers who say they still lack adequate personal protective equipment (PPE) and testing to curb its spread.
The number of deaths registered by the ONS in care homes is thought to be lower than the true figure.
Care industry leaders and the Alzheimer’s Society say they believe the virus is now active in around half of care settings, which look after about 400,000 people in the UK. This is far higher than the estimate given by Prof Chris Whitty, the UK government’s chief medical officer, who said on Tuesday that just over 9% of care homes had cases of Covid-19.
“We are seeing underreporting of the number of deaths,” said Prof Martin Green, the chief executive of Care UK, which represents the largest care providers. “Deaths might not be in the thousands yet, but it is coming up to that level. We need a proper analysis of death rates occurring across care homes, and the government should be collecting this data.”
Around 70% of residents in one Yorkshire care home for people with dementia, operated by MHA, the UK’s largest charitable provider of care homes, are suspected of being infected. Thirteen people have died in another of MHA’s Yorkshire homes and 11 have died in a home in Northamptonshire. The provider also believes half of its care homes have cases of infection.
A separate care home in Luton said on Wednesday that 15 people had died during the crisis, including five who tested positive for Covid-19. Three care homes in Scotland announced 30 deaths between them earlier this week and press reports in the last week have catalogued at least 36 other care home deaths.
The suspected death toll at homes run by one charitable provider of care.
Advertisement
Jason Oke, a senior statistician at the Nuffield Department of Primary Care Health Sciences in Oxford, said the current figures were “obviously an underestimate of the severity of the pandemic”.
Coronavirus: the week explained - sign up for our email newsletter
Read more
“The worry is that we discover in six months that the numbers are way larger because no one was counting what was happening in care homes,” he said.
Amid fears that the virus is spreading rapidly through homes, especially among dementia patients who are hard to isolate, care leaders and unions are demanding immediate action to deliver more testing and PPE.
The Alzheimer’s Society said on Thursday it fears hundreds of thousands of people with dementia “are being abandoned in care homes”. The trade union Unison also sent a dossier of hundreds of carers’ complaints about a lack of PPE to ministers, including one report of a carer wearing a bag over their face in the absence of a mask.
The daily death toll published by the Department of Health and Social Care only relates to reported deaths in NHS England hospitals. This climbed to nearly 8,000 on Wednesday.
The ONS started publishing statistics for deaths in care homes in England and Wales this week, but the current figure – 20 deaths in the week to 27 March – are 12 days behind the daily hospital death rate and rely only on registered death certificates, which take an average of five days to process. That brings the time lag to around 17 days, and social care operators say this is too slow to grasp the scale of infection and fatalities.
“By only counting deaths in hospitals, [ministers] are sweeping the deaths of older people in care homes under the carpet,” said Peter Kyle, the MP for Hove, who is calling for the appointment of a cabinet minister dedicated to fighting Covid-19 in care settings. “If social care was a priority that matched other sectors, government would be counting and acting,” he said.
A snapshot of the toll at one particular home in Yorkshire run by MHA.
Advertisement
The ONS said it can only produce statistics from the death certificates registered by the General Register Office and it is “working with partners to better understand how the registration and coronial process is adapting under current conditions”.
Nazir Afzal, the former chief crown prosecutor for north-west England, who lost his 71-year-old brother Umar to Covid-19 on Wednesday, said the UK was “substantially under reporting” coronavirus deaths.
“It appears that some people are not taking this pandemic seriously,” he said. “If they appreciated the hundreds of families and communities who lost loved ones every day then they might. Fifty-two people were killed on 7/7, we know all their names, everything they lost and left behind. We know nothing of more than 20 times that every day who lose their lives to Covid-19.”
Share your story
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We would like to hear from key workers in the UK, especially those working in transport. You can get in touch by filling in the form below, or by contacting us via WhatsApp by clicking here or adding the contact +44(0)7867825056. Only the Guardian can see your contributions and one of our journalists may contact you to discuss further.
Tell us
A Department of Health and Social Care spokesperson said: “We are determined to give the social care sector the support it needs to respond to coronavirus and continue to work closely with Public Health England to monitor the impact on cares homes.
“The government has announced £2.9bn to help local authorities respond to pressures in key services, such as adult social care, and enhance the NHS discharge service, allowing patients to return home safely. We have published extensive guidance for care homes on admitting and caring for people during the outbreak, and we are reinstating the professional registration of 8,000 former social workers to fill vital roles in the community.
“We have also delivered 7.8m pieces of PPE to more than 26,000 care settings across the country and are rapidly working to extend testing to social care workers.”
Guidance on who can visit people in hospital during the lockdown was revised on Wednesday after analysis revealed that a quarter of hospitals in England were banning those caring for patients with dementia, a learning disability or autism.
The new guidance, which was welcomed by campaigners, means close family members and carers of those with a mental health issue now have the right to visit their loved ones in hospital..
How much longer can they get away with this 20 reported in nursing homes and at home,as the report at least a thousand dead,there are 400,000 in these homes france are reorting them now,we conveniently again are not putting them in,the usual expected disgarce fro this mob..It's never simple is it,you have to go hunting to find out what tricks thwy are upto and the thing is,i knew from the very beginning they were going to do this was predicted they would manipulate the figures..They even admit it,if they do should be seeing in next lot of figures maybe 1000s should be in the ons,homes are absolutely riddled with it and they are not getting treated absolutely disgusting,but totally expected..
Why are they refusing to test people in old peoples homes when sent to hospital and sending them back to infect everyone,the idea was to protect all the elderly this is deliberate cannon fodder and then of course the staff looking after them don't have the PPE either wtf is going on..These people are going to be collateral damage and these lot will get away with it..this was said in week one would happen and they are actually going to do it..50% of all homes will be infected,this is a national scandal./
More than 120 residents of the UK’s largest charitable provider of care homes are thought to have died from the virus in the last three weeks, while another network of care homes is reported to have recorded 88 deaths.
'We haven't had time to grieve': care homes struggle as Covid-19 deaths rise
Read more
Care England, the industry body, estimated that the death toll is likely to be close to 1,000, despite the only available official figure for care home fatalities being dramatically lower. The Office for National Statistics said this week that 20 people died in care homes across the whole of England and Wales in the week to 27 March.
The gulf in the figures has prompted warnings that ministers are underestimating the impact of Covid-19 on society’s most frail, and are failing to sufficiently help besieged care homes and workers.
Other homes have reported dozens of deaths as the virus sweeps through vulnerable populations looked after by care workers who say they still lack adequate personal protective equipment (PPE) and testing to curb its spread.
The number of deaths registered by the ONS in care homes is thought to be lower than the true figure.
Care industry leaders and the Alzheimer’s Society say they believe the virus is now active in around half of care settings, which look after about 400,000 people in the UK. This is far higher than the estimate given by Prof Chris Whitty, the UK government’s chief medical officer, who said on Tuesday that just over 9% of care homes had cases of Covid-19.
“We are seeing underreporting of the number of deaths,” said Prof Martin Green, the chief executive of Care UK, which represents the largest care providers. “Deaths might not be in the thousands yet, but it is coming up to that level. We need a proper analysis of death rates occurring across care homes, and the government should be collecting this data.”
Around 70% of residents in one Yorkshire care home for people with dementia, operated by MHA, the UK’s largest charitable provider of care homes, are suspected of being infected. Thirteen people have died in another of MHA’s Yorkshire homes and 11 have died in a home in Northamptonshire. The provider also believes half of its care homes have cases of infection.
A separate care home in Luton said on Wednesday that 15 people had died during the crisis, including five who tested positive for Covid-19. Three care homes in Scotland announced 30 deaths between them earlier this week and press reports in the last week have catalogued at least 36 other care home deaths.
The suspected death toll at homes run by one charitable provider of care.
Advertisement
Jason Oke, a senior statistician at the Nuffield Department of Primary Care Health Sciences in Oxford, said the current figures were “obviously an underestimate of the severity of the pandemic”.
Coronavirus: the week explained - sign up for our email newsletter
Read more
“The worry is that we discover in six months that the numbers are way larger because no one was counting what was happening in care homes,” he said.
Amid fears that the virus is spreading rapidly through homes, especially among dementia patients who are hard to isolate, care leaders and unions are demanding immediate action to deliver more testing and PPE.
The Alzheimer’s Society said on Thursday it fears hundreds of thousands of people with dementia “are being abandoned in care homes”. The trade union Unison also sent a dossier of hundreds of carers’ complaints about a lack of PPE to ministers, including one report of a carer wearing a bag over their face in the absence of a mask.
The daily death toll published by the Department of Health and Social Care only relates to reported deaths in NHS England hospitals. This climbed to nearly 8,000 on Wednesday.
The ONS started publishing statistics for deaths in care homes in England and Wales this week, but the current figure – 20 deaths in the week to 27 March – are 12 days behind the daily hospital death rate and rely only on registered death certificates, which take an average of five days to process. That brings the time lag to around 17 days, and social care operators say this is too slow to grasp the scale of infection and fatalities.
“By only counting deaths in hospitals, [ministers] are sweeping the deaths of older people in care homes under the carpet,” said Peter Kyle, the MP for Hove, who is calling for the appointment of a cabinet minister dedicated to fighting Covid-19 in care settings. “If social care was a priority that matched other sectors, government would be counting and acting,” he said.
A snapshot of the toll at one particular home in Yorkshire run by MHA.
Advertisement
The ONS said it can only produce statistics from the death certificates registered by the General Register Office and it is “working with partners to better understand how the registration and coronial process is adapting under current conditions”.
Nazir Afzal, the former chief crown prosecutor for north-west England, who lost his 71-year-old brother Umar to Covid-19 on Wednesday, said the UK was “substantially under reporting” coronavirus deaths.
“It appears that some people are not taking this pandemic seriously,” he said. “If they appreciated the hundreds of families and communities who lost loved ones every day then they might. Fifty-two people were killed on 7/7, we know all their names, everything they lost and left behind. We know nothing of more than 20 times that every day who lose their lives to Covid-19.”
Share your story
Share your experiences
We would like to hear from key workers in the UK, especially those working in transport. You can get in touch by filling in the form below, or by contacting us via WhatsApp by clicking here or adding the contact +44(0)7867825056. Only the Guardian can see your contributions and one of our journalists may contact you to discuss further.
Tell us
A Department of Health and Social Care spokesperson said: “We are determined to give the social care sector the support it needs to respond to coronavirus and continue to work closely with Public Health England to monitor the impact on cares homes.
“The government has announced £2.9bn to help local authorities respond to pressures in key services, such as adult social care, and enhance the NHS discharge service, allowing patients to return home safely. We have published extensive guidance for care homes on admitting and caring for people during the outbreak, and we are reinstating the professional registration of 8,000 former social workers to fill vital roles in the community.
“We have also delivered 7.8m pieces of PPE to more than 26,000 care settings across the country and are rapidly working to extend testing to social care workers.”
Guidance on who can visit people in hospital during the lockdown was revised on Wednesday after analysis revealed that a quarter of hospitals in England were banning those caring for patients with dementia, a learning disability or autism.
The new guidance, which was welcomed by campaigners, means close family members and carers of those with a mental health issue now have the right to visit their loved ones in hospital..
How much longer can they get away with this 20 reported in nursing homes and at home,as the report at least a thousand dead,there are 400,000 in these homes france are reorting them now,we conveniently again are not putting them in,the usual expected disgarce fro this mob..It's never simple is it,you have to go hunting to find out what tricks thwy are upto and the thing is,i knew from the very beginning they were going to do this was predicted they would manipulate the figures..They even admit it,if they do should be seeing in next lot of figures maybe 1000s should be in the ons,homes are absolutely riddled with it and they are not getting treated absolutely disgusting,but totally expected..
Why are they refusing to test people in old peoples homes when sent to hospital and sending them back to infect everyone,the idea was to protect all the elderly this is deliberate cannon fodder and then of course the staff looking after them don't have the PPE either wtf is going on..These people are going to be collateral damage and these lot will get away with it..this was said in week one would happen and they are actually going to do it..50% of all homes will be infected,this is a national scandal./
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Gigolo
You are a picture of sweetness and light, bringing joy and good tidings to this discussion with your incessant outpurings of vitriol.
I trust you'll remain well away from any street parties to celebrate the likely recovery of our glorious PM.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
You are a picture of sweetness and light, bringing joy and good tidings to this discussion with your incessant outpurings of vitriol.
I trust you'll remain well away from any street parties to celebrate the likely recovery of our glorious PM.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
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My daughter* is a Nurse Manager (think they used to be called Matrons, but NM certainly sounds better) in a prominent Dublin hospital, palliative care department. Her general interactions are with cancer patients who can't be saved and as yet has not been seconded to the CV frontline. She had expected the call a week ago. SHe has been attending lectures/discussions in work regarding possible ethical choices that may have to be made if the curve doesn't flatten. It's hard to believe my 'little girl' is in this deep. The one thing that ruptures her calmness, and I am as guilty as anybody, is quoting the national comparative scorecards. "We're doing a better job here than UK/Spain/Italy, etc." I dropped into this mode the other night and she cut me up short. "It's not the fuckin Eurovision song contest, Dad. Death doesn't come in order of importance." She rarely swears. I got the message.
*My struggle through the years to protect her from North Cork's best looking gigilo (not that one) paid off.
Stay the **** home.
*My struggle through the years to protect her from North Cork's best looking gigilo (not that one) paid off.
Stay the **** home.
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"Ethical choices" is cold. Can just imagine that on a Power Point graph.
Can you explain to me why compassion for people that are dying in care homes is 'vitriol'?
No, you wouldn't regard him as vitrolic, would you?
USA - https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
1 day since projected peak in daily deaths
61,545 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
Ireland - https://covid19.healthdata.org/ireland
4 days since projected peak in daily deaths
500 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
UK - https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom
6 days until projected peak in daily deaths
37,494 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
Italy - https://covid19.healthdata.org/italy
15 days since projected peak in daily deaths
20,333 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
Germany - https://covid19.healthdata.org/germany
1 day until projected peak in daily deaths
7,080 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
France - https://covid19.healthdata.org/france
5 days since projected peak in daily deaths
15,741 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
Spain - https://covid19.healthdata.org/spain
5 days since projected peak in daily deaths
15,741 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
Sweden - https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden
23 days until projected peak in daily deaths
13,259 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
1 day since projected peak in daily deaths
61,545 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
Ireland - https://covid19.healthdata.org/ireland
4 days since projected peak in daily deaths
500 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
UK - https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom
6 days until projected peak in daily deaths
37,494 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
Italy - https://covid19.healthdata.org/italy
15 days since projected peak in daily deaths
20,333 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
Germany - https://covid19.healthdata.org/germany
1 day until projected peak in daily deaths
7,080 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
France - https://covid19.healthdata.org/france
5 days since projected peak in daily deaths
15,741 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
Spain - https://covid19.healthdata.org/spain
5 days since projected peak in daily deaths
15,741 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
Sweden - https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden
23 days until projected peak in daily deaths
13,259 COVID-19 deaths projected by August 4, 2020
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Obvious takeaways:
- UK projection of deaths down 43% from 66,314 to 37,494
- Sweden, what are you doing?
Tweet on the UK change - https://twitter.com/IHME_UW/status/1248771981052272640?s=20
- UK projection of deaths down 43% from 66,314 to 37,494
- Sweden, what are you doing?
Tweet on the UK change - https://twitter.com/IHME_UW/status/1248771981052272640?s=20
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It seems that there is concern it isn't a coincidence
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/10/uk-coronavirus-deaths-bame-doctors-bma
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Interesting projections and please keep them coming Slim; but the already apparent volatility between updates suggests healthy scepticism is required
I'd also suggest that projected figures on their own mean little without weighting for countries' population and population density
We are 3 days passed the highest number of deaths so on the way down.
AliGupter
At the Start
Why the complete change in measure and wording for UK? :lol:
As said, the variance in figures in no time at all renders this almost meaningless at the minute.
As said, the variance in figures in no time at all renders this almost meaningless at the minute.