Derby. Epsom (no road)

Battle Of Marengo will no doubt be better for another 2f, a lead and a strong pace but he was just a bit underwhelming today. I'm keen to oppose Dawn Approach - again - but I'd rather pick one to beat him than simply lay him and there's nothing I'm particularly struck by at present. No doubt York will tell us more but Telescope is priced for the Derby as if he's already won the Dante and impressively at that.

Talking of the Dante, is anybody on here going on Thursday? I'll be there and I'd gladly buy a pint for anyone who is and who wants to meet up. Don't all rush at once.
 
I agree that Battle Of Marengo was not very convincing yesterday, especially when you consider that the 2nd and 3rd both ran up the straight with their heads in the air.
 
Like Gus says the price on Telescope is awful but that said the minute I saw him win my first thought was Derby. The fact he ran his first race over 7f and his second run over 8f and was never tried at shorter as a 2yo made it obvious he wanted further.

That of course never meant he was a classic horse in the making but the way he picked up at Newmarket even had me wondering if Stoutey would let him take his chance in the Guineas.

Of course SMS has the patience of Jobe and that probably never enter his mind.

His ability as a trainer is second to none and a couple of poor seasons changes nothing. If Telescope has the ability you can bet your backside he'll win the Derby.

As Gus points out...Find me one to beat him?

SMS has a great record with this type of horse but I'd want to see him run again before I'd back him as apart from the usual "He's catching Pigeons" garbage There is no proof he's come on since last year. Nothing would carry my money at this time these 2yo at 3yo can be something completely deiffernt
 
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I've been following flat racing since 2004 and Stoute was clearly a legend of the game when I got into it but since then he's had Workforce and not much else. You'd be rich laying the stoute horses AP in the classics in recent years.

This slowly slowly approach is old hat as far as i'm concerned. Plenty of people have shown you can run em and they'll keep winning.
 
I should love to see Telescope bolt up on Wed . That would make it the most interesting Derby of recent years with Dawn Approach, Ocavango and the battalions from Ballydoyle.
 
Aragorn said:
This slowly slowly approach is old hat as far as i'm concerned. Plenty of people have shown you can run em and they'll keep winning.
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There's more than one way to skin a cat.

The idea that Stoute's name as trainer of a Derby contender could be a negative doesn't sit very well with me at all.
 
Aragorn said:
I've been following flat racing since 2004 and Stoute was clearly a legend of the game when I got into it but since then he's had Workforce and not much else. You'd be rich laying the stoute horses AP in the classics in recent years.
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Stoutes win in British Classics:

2004-2012 - 3 wins (a tally bettered only by AOB on 10)
1995-2003 - 5 wins
1986-1994 - 4 wins
1981-1986 - 2 wins
 
do you have the numbers in last 5 years
at royal Ascot
ebor or glorious goodwood

the stable is doing very badly for more than 3 years and is not the force of old times
 
Sir Henry proved that a few quiet years doesn't remove your ability to train a good one when it comes along.
 
sunybay said:
do you have the numbers in last 5 years
at royal Ascot
ebor or glorious goodwood

the stable is doing very badly for more than 3 years and is not the force of old times
Click to expand...

Dont have the numbers updated for 2012 yet. No doubt someone else has access to something that could pull it - I'm just using a manually updated spreadsheet.

But I can give you these numbers which tell a story to my eye - group winners on the left, Gp1 winners on the right - in 5 yr segments over the last 30 years. Data missing from 2012 as said. Most recent at the top.

45 17
44 19
51 24
45 17
37 14
41 13


I reckon wilsonl is correct - give him the horse and he is still capable of producing the goods. 11 of those 24 between 1996-2001 came from 2 horses - Pilsudski and Singspiel.
 
gus said:
There's more than one way to skin a cat.

The idea that Stoute's name as trainer of a Derby contender could be a negative doesn't sit very well with me at all.
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Its a negative in terms of price.

I think he can train em but he's almost become too risk averse the older he's got.
 
His horses have always been over bet but Cecil is taking his mantle this season. Some of his have been incredibly poor value wise.
 
Aragorn said:
I've been following flat racing since 2004 and Stoute was clearly a legend of the game when I got into it but since then he's had Workforce and not much else. You'd be rich laying the stoute horses AP in the classics in recent years.

This slowly slowly approach is old hat as far as i'm concerned. Plenty of people have shown you can run em and they'll keep winning.
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How many hours a day would I need to practice to enable me to come up with the crackers your do?

"Slowly slowly approach is old hat" is about the most stupid statement I have read on here ..... Ever!

Just as well I like you or I'd say what I really think:p
 
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