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trudij said:
But surely if its one of their rules, he should have obeyed it. No different to our whip rules (as an example) - everyone who comes here has to abide by them - being foreign isnt an excuse for breaking them.
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trudi - the rule is bonkers - you are instructed to sit close behind the leaders and challenge two out- the horse misses the break , or is unbalanced in the early stages and you have to drop in and you get a lengthy ban .

The punishment was so disproportionate that it should not have been enforced . The Indian authorities chose to put themselves outside the rest of the countries by refusing to allow legal representation at appeal hearings . The reasoning appears clear - any good lawyer would be able to rip their bonkers and draconian rulings to pieces . They should not be entitled to have their bans reciprocated until they join the international racing agreement.
 
Sorry - I forgot the "if the rule is deemed bonkers you dont have to follow it" thing - Ive always been taught that if there is a rule and you break it then you face the concequences, be that disqualification/having your hands chopped off or whatever.

I look forward to you representing me in court when I break any number of the rules of the country that I think are bonkers.... :)
 
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Seemingly the horse bled previously so should not have run for 4 weeks so the Indian Authorities broke their own rules.
Even Dwyer had the stewards 3 to 2 in his favour but The Chairman cast his vote against so the ban remained.
Ghandi must be turning in his grave if this is Democracy.
 
Bleeding is completely different tho - and therefore a completely different subject. I dont know how hot the Indians are on welfare issues - Im guessing they arent all that hot on it from what little Ive heard.

If the horse shouldnt have been running then it should have been removed at the start (if it got that far!) and then the whole thread would have been academic cos there wouldnt have been any rules broken so no problem !!
 
trudij said:
Sorry - I forgot the "if the rule is deemed bonkers you dont have to follow it" thing - Ive always been taught that if there is a rule and you break it then you face the concequences, be that disqualification/having your hands chopped off or whatever.

I look forward to you representing me in court when I break any number of the rules of the country that I think are bonkers.... :)
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The question is why should be reciprocate a ban under a bonkers rule from an authority that does not play by the rules itself.
 
Ardross said:
The question is why should be reciprocate a ban under a bonkers rule from an authority that does not play by the rules itself.
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Hughes was done for not riding a horse to instructions given by connections, a rule which (rightly or wrongly) exists in India and carries hefty penalties. Just like homosexuality is illegal and carries draconian penalties in certain countries, we may find it bonkers and wrong but the rule is clear and has to be obeyed.

Dwyer was done for not riding a horse on it's merits which is a rule we also have in the UK and anyone with eyes can see he isn't guilty of this.

The two are very very separate incidents and Hughes could have had no complaints. Also made me laugh that he said he would never ride there again but was out there again next Winter...
 
Gamla Stan said:
Hughes was done for not riding a horse to instructions given by connections, a rule which (rightly or wrongly) exists in India and carries hefty penalties. Just like homosexuality is illegal and carries draconian penalties in certain countries, we may find it bonkers and wrong but the rule is clear and has to be obeyed.

Dwyer was done for not riding a horse on it's merits which is a rule we also have in the UK and anyone with eyes can see he isn't guilty of this.

The two are very very separate incidents and Hughes could have had no complaints. Also made me laugh that he said he would never ride there again but was out there again next Winter...
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That is simply an irrational argument . So we should reciprocate a ban under a rule we do not have but not one under a rule we do have - when they are both subject to the same flawed process ?
 
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Difference is that Dwyer would never have been found guilty of that rule under the UK rules (or anywhere else) and it is quite clearly a farcical decision. A BHA disciplinary panel could rule confidently that the horse was ridden on it's merits and therefore agree not to reciprocate the ban.

Hughes was actually guilty of breaking a rule which doesn't exist in the UK and therefore, it's much harder for a disciplinary panel to argue he wasn't guilty and thus not reciprocate.

I have very little time for jockeys that go to these countries where they know there is an element of mob rule in the stewarding processes and whilst Dwyer can appeal and should get the ban quashed in the UK, he knew what he was dealing with when he agreed to ride out there. I have much more sympathy for him than Hughes but generally, they can't come crying to daddy (BHA) when they get home because they don't like how they were treated by the nasty foreign police. Nobody made them ride out there.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Difference is that Dwyer would never have been found guilty of that rule under the UK rules (or anywhere else) and it is quite clearly a farcical decision. A BHA disciplinary panel could rule confidently that the horse was ridden on it's merits and therefore agree not to reciprocate the ban.

Hughes was actually guilty of breaking a rule which doesn't exist in the UK and therefore, it's much harder for a disciplinary panel to argue he wasn't guilty and thus not reciprocate.

I have very little time for jockeys that go to these countries where they know there is an element of mob rule in the stewarding processes and whilst Dwyer can appeal and should get the ban quashed in the UK, he knew what he was dealing with when he agreed to ride out there. I have much more sympathy for him than Hughes but generally, they can't come crying to daddy (BHA) when they get home because they don't like how they were treated by the nasty foreign police. Nobody made them ride out there.
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The problem with that argument is that you are stating that the BHA should act as a court of appeal from the Indian authorities when that is not their role .

The reasons for not reciprocating are generally about process and proportionality not the merits of the decision.
 
From The Times Of India re Martin Dwyer

MUMBAI: Adi Narielwala, chairman of the Board Of Appeal (BOA) of the Royal Western India Turf Club (RWITC) has come down heavily on the people both in India and abroad, who were claiming English jockey Martin Dwyer to be innocent in the Ice Age case, saying that Dwyer in fact deserved harsher punishment.

"Dwyer blatantly pulled the horse. He tried every trick to not let Ice Age win," Narielwala told TOI.

"Those who claim Dwyer is innocent, don't really know how to read a race. They need to learn racing," he thundered.

Narielwala also brushed aside claims that the horse had bled during the race which could have affected his performance. "I have seen many horses bleeding heavily and yet winning. In this case, the bleeding had no effect as the horse was literally flying in the last part," claimed Narielwala.

However, the drama that unfolded at the BOA hearing has certainly provided Dwyer a shot in the arm in his quest to convince British Horseracing Authorities not to reciprocate the Indian ban. The sharp division at the BOA hearing, where three of the six-member body were insisting to set aside Dwyer's ban completely, has definitely dented the image of the august body.
 
Diamond Geezer said:
From The Times Of India re Martin Dwyer

MUMBAI: Adi Narielwala, chairman of the Board Of Appeal (BOA) of the Royal Western India Turf Club (RWITC) has come down heavily on the people both in India and abroad, who were claiming English jockey Martin Dwyer to be innocent in the Ice Age case, saying that Dwyer in fact deserved harsher punishment.

"Dwyer blatantly pulled the horse. He tried every trick to not let Ice Age win," Narielwala told TOI.

"Those who claim Dwyer is innocent, don't really know how to read a race. They need to learn racing," he thundered.

Narielwala also brushed aside claims that the horse had bled during the race which could have affected his performance. "I have seen many horses bleeding heavily and yet winning. In this case, the bleeding had no effect as the horse was literally flying in the last part," claimed Narielwala.

However, the drama that unfolded at the BOA hearing has certainly provided Dwyer a shot in the arm in his quest to convince British Horseracing Authorities not to reciprocate the Indian ban. The sharp division at the BOA hearing, where three of the six-member body were insisting to set aside Dwyer's ban completely, has definitely dented the image of the august body.
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August body ! They make the court of Star Chamber look like a paragon of fairness and justice .
 
SlimChance said:
The stacks of cash help.
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Exactly. They can hardly cry when they then get found guilty by a kangaroo court.

They could go to HK, Japan, Middle East, Korea, Oz, USA....

They choose India because it's seen as an easy way to get a few quid during the Winter. That's fine but there are risks that go with it and they know that when they go out. That said, Dwyer should be let off by the BHA as this is beyond a farce.
 
From the Limerick Leader, better news for Brian Twomey

THE mother of Limerick jockey Brian Toomey who sustained serious head injuries in a fall in Scotland in July says she has seen “a great improvement” in him in recent days.

The 24-year-old is continuing to receive treatment at James Cook University Hospital in Middlesbrough.

“Even though we saw a great improvement in him in the two weeks, there is still a long way to go,” said Marian Toomey who along with her husband, Johnny, visited Brian last week.

“He has full movement. He can walk. It is very important with a brain injury that he gets a lot of rest. He is in great form. In the last few days he has been really good,” she added.

Brian, from Manister, was placed in an induced coma after undergoing surgery to his brain in the aftermath of his fall at Perth on July 4.

He had initially been treated at Ninewells Hospital in Dundee but was transferred to James Cook University Hospital in Middlesbrough last month.

The move to Middlesbrough has made visiting easier for Brian’s many friends within the racing community in North Yorkshire where he is attached to the stable of trainer Kevin Ryan.

Brian is dating Kevin’s daughter, Amy, who has been a “huge support” to him since his fall.

“Amy is doing well,” said Marian. “Amy had been injured in a fall. She is not able to ride at the moment. She hurt her shoulder so she has to stay out from horse riding for a while. Her family have been fantastic. They moved him down to Middlesbrough to be near all his friends and to take the pressure off us as well.”

Marian was speaking to the Leader at the launch of a fundraising point-to-point in the Dunraven Arms in aid of another injured Limerick jockey, JT McNamara, a cousin of Brian.

“Brian was asking about the event because he knew JT so well. He used to live at the McNamaras’ when he was young, he was always up there,” said Marian.

While Brian will remain at James Cook University Hospital for the foreseeable future, the plan is that he will be left home for short periods before he is fully discharged from the hospital.

On behalf of Brian and all the Toomey family, Marian paid tribute to all those who have supported the family since Brian’s fall.

“We want to thank everybody - all our neighbours and friends in Manister,” she said.
 
Is Joseph O'Brien struggling with his weight? Just noticed he put up 1lb overweight in the Moyglare.
 
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Brian Toomey looking great on the Morning Line. He has to get a plate put in his head but seems to be doing really well. Good to see and hopefully his recovery will carry on doing well
 
Alain Cawley picked up a ten day "not trying" ban for his ride on Tom Symond's Ashdown Lad in the opener at Huntingdon.
 
The Turf Club have reported that JT McNamara has been moved to a specialised unit in Southport, Merseyside to commence his rehabilitation.
 
BHA have upheld Martin Dwyer’s application for non-reciprocation of the 56-day suspension imposed by RWITC.
 
Joseph O'Brien has broken Michael Kinane's Irish record for number of winners in a season at Navan today.
 
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