Kauto Star Or Denman

Kauto or Debman

  • Total voters
    1
Originally posted by Euronymous@Mar 14 2008, 02:53 PM
I see the excuses are coming. Absolute tosh, he had to use his speed to get past NC and did easily - take Denman out of the race and KS would have used said speed later in the contest and won handily with ED well back.
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Spot on.
 
Fantastic race, probably the 'truest' Gold Cup for many years.

Ruby's just said Kauto was never really travelling. Maybe he was just outside his comfort zone, it's difficult to know. The form with Halcon Genelardais and Neptune Collonges suggests KS was below form.

Interesting too, to see Denman out on his feet for the first time. KS and NC must have made up about 10 and twenty lengths respectively on him from the second last.

Well done all those who went for Denman.
 
Well done DENMAN , :clap: super horse who loved the ground , Kauto Star didnt seem to jump as good as he could today , and even if he did i dont think he would have beaten Denman .. :)
 
Don't know who just voted but DENMAN got mine ages ago - fabulous jumping performance, fabulous looking horse and what a result for P. Nicholls and his team.
 
Originally posted by Euronymous+Mar 14 2008, 04:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Euronymous @ Mar 14 2008, 04:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flagship uberalles@Mar 14 2008, 03:57 PM

Bung them both in the Henessey next year, no need to worry about weights as nothing else will bother to turn up.
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Classic. [/b][/quote]
Please name me some horses that will actually be in the handicap and are therefore likely to turn up let alone have a decent chance.

Not exactly an awful lot of 165+ horses at 3m 2f out there at the minute, are there?

I'll start you off: Exotic Dancer and Neptunes Collonges.
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Mar 14 2008, 04:10 PM
probably the 'truest' Gold Cup for many years.
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4 of the first 5 home officially rated over 170. All 5 rated by the RP as over 170. Stretched out by 32 lengths.
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15 secs quicker than Foxhunters too according to JN


That suggests a cracking performance by Denman
 
Kauto clearly ran before form, and i think Neptune Collonges has improved.

I'd give Kauto a 177, Neptune Collonges a 176 and Denman a 184.

A great performance, but still not as good as Master Minded yesterday. That has to be the highlight of the week for me.
 
Originally posted by denisco_uk@Mar 14 2008, 04:35 PM


I'd give Kauto a 177, Neptune Collonges a 176 and Denman a 184.
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Kauto running 177 ( Haydock run)

I had NC on 173+ (Winc Run) bit of improvement

I had HG on 171 ( Chepstow run) probably over-rated a couple of pounds



Does seem to fit nicely don't it and 184/5 for Denman looks about right Denisco
 
Originally posted by betsmate@Mar 14 2008, 03:44 PM
It will get lost in all this, but huge performance by Neptune Collonges.
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Not by me - I prophesied that outcome - the 1/2/3 tho not in that order! - months ago :eek:
Great ride by Mick Fitz
 
Originally posted by Flagship uberalles+Mar 14 2008, 03:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flagship uberalles @ Mar 14 2008, 03:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Bar the Bull@Mar 14 2008, 03:50 PM
I think Kauto was a bit below par, Gareth. Not much, but a bit.
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I agree - not much, but enough.

The time will tell all for me - if its a slow time, Denman got the run of the race alright - superb ride by Thomas, not so sure if you could say the same for Ruby. [/b][/quote]
Couple of trainers in the room watching remarked early it was a slow early pace - played into Denman's hands certainly. But take nothing away from the winner although the ground was on his side - would have been hard to beat in any circumstances other than G/F

Don;t think KS jumped badly because he was taken out of his comfort zone 0 he wasn't on song fromnt he start. Pace too slow maybe? Or just having an off day.

But as Steve has pointed out all along, the race would be, and was, run to suit Denman.
A fantastic horse
 
The suspicion that Kauto wasn't 100%?

The way Denman didn't quite see the trip out like you thought he might?
 
Lydia giving rating now

MM186
Denman 185
KS 178 [below best]
ED 177

So two this week have beaten Moscow's 'bet ever' rating :eek:
 
Originally posted by an capall@Mar 14 2008, 05:45 PM
I feel unsatisfied by the race. I can't quite put my finger on 'why?'

Please help me.
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Easy to say, and I feel just the same. Kauto was faltering from the start - just not the Champ we know.

He put in a short one before most of his fences, and the writing was on the wall from the 2nd or 3rd!

BAr said << I think Kauto was a bit below par, Gareth. Not much, but a bit. >>
I think he was well below, for reasons stated - watch it again

Very disappointing
 
Just like ED tested his stamina at Haydock 2008, Kauto's stamina was tested today by Denman and over this longer trip, in a properly run race, he has been conquered
 
But it wasn't his stamina which was in question! The problem wasn't at the business end - Not his running -
he was putting in short ones before his jumps, not fluent at all, from very early on.
 
If you want to believe that then fine


he was almost beaten by a 177 horse on soft at Haydock, he's been almost beaten by what looks a 177 horse on Good to Soft and he's been demolished by a 180+ horse on Good to Soft


These three horses, the ground and races have pushed him to his limit and in doing so, exposed his stamina limitations imo
 
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