Kauto Star Or Denman

Kauto or Debman

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Well I've watched all his runs and he was never fluent today at all, remarked on too by all in the house [I'm in Lambourn] and what the reason was we may never know. He just never seemed to be seeing his fences properly - and Ruby said the same. He is better than that showing today, by far. The race will leave it's mark tho, psychologically

PS I'm not saying Denman would not have beaten him anyway - just that we didn't get the match we might have got with KS at his best
 
I think Kauto was below his best today, but not by much, but I'm certain it is because my mate backed it and he had no winners this week, and pretty much every horse he backed this week had it's worst race ever. :laughing:

I think Denman would possibly have won anyway though...
 
He is better than that showing today, by far
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Don't agree with the by far, IMO he has run to the form of his GC win, 2008 BF Chase win and his Old Roan 2nd and that is about 3lbs below his two King Georges, 2007 BF Chase
 
I think it was the best Gold Cup I have seen.

I think Kauto run to something like 180 and that puts Denman on 185p in figures.
Neptune Collonges run a massive race.
 
Originally posted by Bar the Bull@Mar 14 2008, 06:55 PM
You were watching the race in Lambourn with racing professionals?
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Yes, someo f them - and of those, most of them were with Denman before the race
 
Denman deserved that win 100%! It was a days racing I will NEVER forget. The hype was right. A battle of two brilliant, talented horses and I think the better horse won on the day.

They said racing history would be made today, and they weren't wrong.

I (think) I took some better photos today, although my hands were literally shaking. The most amazing thing to me was when the horses were in the parade ring for The Gold Cup you could at times almost hear a pin drop. It was an amazing atmosphere.

It was VERY busy there today but I found I could move about easily inbetween the races and got plenty close enough to Kauto and Denman. Kauto wins the beauty contest but Denman is one hell of a racehorse as he proved today.

Well done to Paul Nicholls and his team. :clap: :clap: To have the first, second and third was an amazing training achievement.

I am just thrilled to have been part of it today.
 
So, Harry said this week they'd DEFINITELY aim Denman at The Grand National next year and he'd DEFINITELY win it. Now, assuming they did (which i still doubt), do we think he'd have a favourites chance? Would he be a non-stayer over 4 and a half miles, or would he just simply cruise round a bit slower and gallop them all into the ground like today? I'd go with the latter.
 
It's harder for non-stayers (like Gay Trip or Specify, for example) to win the National these days since the fences have been modified, but I think that Denman could do it, provided the going wasn't too testing.
 
Great atmosphere today and I think the best horse won although I do agree Kauto probably didn't run quite up to standard given the close proximity of Neptunes Collognes even if the later had improved - even with Kauto at his best I still think Denman would have won.

Great stuff for connections although I do feel a bit sorry for KS's lass as I'm sure she'll be disappointed (as will all the connections) - but at least they all came back safe and sound :)
 
Destroyed Kauto who has no excuses whatsoever.
Didnt back anything but enjoyed that as my favourite Gold Cup.
Like Carvill's hill with the ability to jump.
 
We didn't see the real Kauto Star today but that's not to detract from Denman's performance and manner of victory and he was the best horse on the day. Denman looked superb before the race and as Paul Nicholls said you could see what the result was going to be after the third fence. Roll on the rematch and hopefully one where both horses perform to their full ability.

Great for the Ditcheat team and reward for their team ethic, hard work and professionalism.
 
Denman definitely won't run again this season and I've got to discuss with Clive what Kauto Star will do,” said Nicholls.

“Neptune hasn't had too many races and could go to Punchestown again. “Kauto didn't jump as well as he can do. Whether the ground was a bit tacky, we are not going to make anyexcuses. He got beaten by a better horse.
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I think trainer knows KS was found out today
 
Warmest congrats to Denman and his fans - a marvellous display of jumping and sustained effort.

KS was undoubtedly below par - only a short head in front of Neptune C ? Question is why - was it because he could not cope with the pace of the race set by Denman (something Ruby was quoted as doubting at Cheltenham - said he was never travelling and in trouble going past the stands) or because he wasn't right ?

Best horse on the day won - no doubt - best horse - that remains open to discussion.

I would love to see them meet again in the Betfair
 
I've done a very rough provisional assessment of the form.

Based on my pre-race rating for Halcon Genelardais (170+p), Neptune Collonges (176) is 2lbs below his best form, Kauto Star is 9lbs below his best and Denman a pound below his best. That strikes me as unlikely.

Rating the race via Neptune Collonges puts all the figures up 2lbs, which is more like it, but I had a '+' beside all of them and a 'p' beside some so I'm inclined to believe the form is better again.

I'd also rate Denman value for ten lengths since he was at least that distance clear before tying up. I reckon if Thomas had held on to him for another fence he'd have won by ten lengths.

So my provisional ratings for the race are:

Denman 184+
Kauto Star 178+
Neptune Collonges 178+
Halcon Genelardais 172+

It suggests Kauto Star (185+) can beat Denman if they meet again.

To put these figures into perspective, Sir Rembrandt was in the mid-160s when getting close to Best Mate.
 
There were two people talking on Newstalk this evening.

One wanted to know if Denman would be the new Best Mate. The other said, "no way. There can only ever be one Best Mate. We thought Kauto Star would be the next Best Mate and look what happened to him."

I was staggered. I threw a kiwi at the radio.
 
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