King George (Ascot)

Ardross said:
Confront is a very good G3 group performer on his day and I suspect he really enjoyed making the running - he isn't a Set Sail .

As well as Workforce running way below the only things that perhaps put what I think was a spectacular and brilliant performance in a bit of perspective are as follows:

Youmzain ran a good race but past performances tend to suggest he is 7-10lb better at Longchamp in October than at Ascot in July.

Daryakana is a good filly but she has not looked as good this year as last and she is no Zarkava.
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so if you move Youmzain 5 or 6 lengths closer to the winner it still makes H a better winner than any of the Arc winners Y has been beaten by..on paper like:)
 
Certainly adds a much need bit of spice to the flat season - I don't think I can remember a Group 1 won like this. Never seen anything like it.
 
EC1 said:
so if you move Youmzain 5 or 6 lengths closer to the winner it still makes H a better winner than any of the Arc winners Y has been beaten by..on paper like:)
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Well you have to remember Youmie was 7 lengths behind Papal Bull in 2008 !!!

It will be hard to keep the old boy out of the frame in the Arc again I reckon.
 
I think it was plenty fast enough for Youmzain though EC.

Harbinger has put in an exceptional performance though - end of story.
 
I cannot see how that can give Harbinger a high 130s rating if you reckon Youmzain ran to his OR of 117 . That would make him 131-132 I would have thought.
 
Ardross said:
Well you have to remember Youmie was 7 lengths behind Papal Bull in 2008 !!!
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Missed the break pretty badly that year didn't he?

Harbinger has given an (OR) 119-rated Irish Derby winner a ~15lb beating, a 117-rated multiple Group 1-placer who has been rated as high as 125 in the past a ~19lb beating, and a 116-rated Group 1 winning filly a ~22lb beating.

A mid-130s OR?

I'm a little bit scared what Timeform might do - they had Cape Blanco on 124 going into this.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
Missed the break pretty badly that year didn't he?

Harbinger has given an (OR) 119-rated Irish Derby winner a ~15lb beating, a 117-rated multiple Group 1-placer who has been rated as high as 125 in the past a ~19lb beating, and a 116-rated Group 1 winning filly a ~22lb beating.

A mid-130s OR?

I'm a little bit scared what Timeform might do - they had Cape Blanco on 124 going into this.
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To be fair he was never really going that year .

Mid 130s would be OK - a rating over that would be wrong on one performance.
 
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Ardross said:
I cannot see how that can give Harbinger a high 130s rating if you reckon Youmzain ran to his OR of 117 . That would make him 131-132 I would have thought.
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Only if the race was over 2 miles! Youmzain's been beaten by 14.25 lengths, which the official handicapper will consider worth at least 19lbs.
 
Ridiculously amazing. It doesn't look real!

Ardross, you rate him on one race, not on an average of races.

Whether people like it or not, that is a better rating than anything sea the stars produced.
 
The other thing is this problem of Ascot form .How reliable it is generally when the horses run elsewhere ?
 
How reliable is arc form? Youmzain runs miles below his form n that race everywhere else ..
 
Hamm said:
Ridiculously amazing. It doesn't look real!

Ardross, you rate him on one race, not on an average of races.

Whether people like it or not, that is a better rating than anything sea the stars produced.
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Ratings are a pile of crap over about 110 in my opinion as they are subjective and cannot be tested as the horses never run in a handicap again .
 
What a ridiculous statement Ardross. Just because the weights are alloted due to race conditions rather than at the whim of the assessor doesn't mean the form can't be tested.
 
His saint cloud form is well below his arc form.

Fwiw, he'll be a very big each way bet for me this year.
 
Ascot is well known to be quirky since it's been relaid. It apparently rides differently to a lot of other courses(more like Polytrack than turf some have said).
 
Let me just say amidst all the analysis and debate, that is a seriously enjoyable race to watch (had no bet). Just fantastic..
 
Gamla Stan said:
Ascot is well known to be quirky since it's been relaid. It apparently rides differently to a lot of other courses(more like Polytrack than turf some have said).
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you are on about the surface - i see - thought you meant configuration

i still can't really crab H though..its not like he hasn't won elsewhere

the comparative time should tell us a lot
 
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