King George VI Chase - Boxing Day, Kempton

They seem pretty sure that Vautour will stay. If he does he surely wins and we might be looking at Don Cossack's price for the Ryanair.
 
Have they addressed the issue of him jumping to the left though. That's the real question.

If he jumps arrow straight and to perfection like he did in the JLT the distance will not be an issue. But there has to be a massive doubt about that.
 
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archie said:
They seem pretty sure that Vautour will stay. If he does he surely wins and we might be looking at Don Cossack's price for the Ryanair.
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any horse that can run as fast as Vautour did from 3 out at Cheltenham has to be more speed than stamina imo..it was just too fast for him to be a stout un..and horses need to truly stay in this..its a hard slog..the old adage its an "easy" 3 miles is a total myth..the finishes here in this race only demand one thing..stamina. Throw in he might prefer going left..i couldn't have him on my mind for this..and i'm a massive fan of the horse.
 
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Grasshopper said:
If Smad does get to the front, I agree, JamesRB - and I think Ruby will be perfectly happy to take a tow.

FWIW, any residual concerns I may have had about Vautour's stamina, have pretty-much evaporated. He will get the trip easy on breeding, and the way he uses his energy in a race (generally jumping fluently, and easy to settle in front or midfield) makes me think he will be able to go any kind of gallop they try to set.

We'll find out soon enough.
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Be surprised if Ruby doesn't either make the pace or is up there forcing it. Not sure Smad Place would have the speed on the forecast ground, anyway.
With those 2 and S. Conti in the van, there'd certainly be no hiding place for Cue Card, stamina-wise.
 
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You pays your money and you takes your choice, EC. I'm only reporting what Patrick said about him staying.
 
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archie said:
You pays your money and you takes your choice, EC. I'm only reporting what Patrick said about him staying.
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horses with his speed are unlikely to be stayers imo..we are all guessing until he tries it..i'd go 90/10% he don't stay..thats using evidence on track that i can see. that run from 3 out was Frankel like..and they kept him away from 12f for that reason..he was so fast
 
reet hard said:
Be surprised if Ruby doesn't either make the pace or is up there forcing it.
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Surely a dawdle suits him best. He'll nail them for speed that way.
Wouldn't want to be playing in to the hands of Don Cossack. Unless they think he's nailed on to get it.
 
EC1 said:
i'd want a big price to find out..this is a very tough race this year
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What if you had a big price? :ninja: :whistle:

:lol:

It's a fascinating race, and I am taking absolutely nothing for granted. Whatever wins, I expect it to run to a very, very high-standard in doing so.
 
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I haven't Grass..so just go on logic and what prices they are now..lets just hope they all run ..we are still waiting for these really great races..hopefully..this will be the first..although i'd have loved to have seen coneygree in there
 
EC1 said:
horses with his speed are unlikely to be stayers imo..we are all guessing until he tries it..i'd go 90/10% he don't stay..thats using evidence on track that i can see. that run from 3 out was Frankel like..and they kept him away from 12f for that reason..he was so fast
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Tell you what EC......I ran the 2014 and 2015 races side by side from 3 out.

What I noted was Unexandre who led from the 3rd last in 2014 was going faster than Vautour until he folded like a pack of cards

More importantly where Vautour was much quicker than Taquin was from the last fence.

In other words he stormed up the hill and only horses with lots of stamina can do that after 2m4f.

Based on that I think he could be very special and he'll get the trip standing on his head. IMO

Like you I would love to have seen Coneygree run as he would have found any stamina doubts in Vautor but I honestly don't think any of the rest are fast enough to get Vautour off the bridle on the way round so that could help him get home is stamina is a worry.
 
Tanlic said:
Tell you what EC......I ran the 2014 and 2015 races side by side from 3 out.

What I noted was Unexandre who led from the 3rd last in 2014 was going faster than Vautour until he folded like a pack of cards

More importantly where Vautour was much quicker than Taquin was from the last fence.

In other words he stormed up the hill and only horses with lots of stamina can do that after 2m4f.

Based on that I think he could be very special and he'll get the trip standing on his head. IMO

Like you I would love to have seen Coneygree run as he would have found any stamina doubts in Vautor but I honestly don't think any of the rest are fast enough to get Vautour off the bridle on the way round so that could help him get home is stamina is a worry.
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in the last few years..Al Ferof was also a fast horse at Cheltenham when he won there coming up the hill in a swift time..it didn't equate into stamina though..so i'd still view V as more speed than stamina...even though Cheltenham is a steep finish..coming up it fast isn't showing stamina imo..that depends on the trip obviously....and V has shown that trip was perfect for him to be able to produce that run. Imo..over further will just dilute him.

I'll still say V is a Ryanir horse..won't stay at Kempton just based on that time at Cheltenham

I'll be happy to be wrong..as clearly its to all our benefits he stays

What would be a real shame is..if he don't stay at kempton and they then do a Champagne fever with him
 
Frankel said:
They should have gone straight to Kempton with ALF Aughex. He won't be winning though.
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How else would I have known he stands value if he hadn't shown it on his season return? I needed it! ;) Its a myth though he's only good on first run, Skelton can bring him back for more!
 
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Its a view of quite a few people on here that Vautour looks top class but vulnerable in this. He'll carry my money for whatever he turns up for at Cheltenham but not at Kempton. Conti will most likely grab a place as this is his Gold Cup and he will be absolutely primed for it. I really like Cue Card because he looks a different horse this season. The negatives raised on here about him are erroneous imo and I've never been convinced by Don Cossack at this level. He's won his fair share but appears to have his best days when others have done their work for the season.
 
Aughex said:
How else would I have known he stands value if he hadn't shown it on his season return? I needed it! ;) Its a myth though he's only good on first run, Skelton can bring him back for more!
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Wasn't over 3m though was it. You need something alright :D Hasn't gone close to winning over the trip if memory serves.
Have plenty of time for Skelton but he's not a miracle worker.
 
EC1 said:
in the last few years..Al Ferof was also a fast horse at Cheltenham when he won there coming up the hill in a swift time..it didn't equate into stamina though..so i'd still view V as more speed than stamina...even though Cheltenham is a steep finish..coming up it fast isn't showing stamina imo..that depends on the trip obviously....and V has shown that trip was perfect for him to be able to produce that run. Imo..over further will just dilute him.

I'll still say V is a Ryanir horse..won't stay at Kempton just based on that time at Cheltenham

I'll be happy to be wrong..as clearly its to all our benefits he stays

What would be a real shame is..if he don't stay at kempton and they then do a Champagne fever with him
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Champagne Fever is at a level Vautour has already comfortably surpassed. I don't get the comparison.
 
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