Miling Division 2010

No but 0.2 seconds out of standard time isn't very soft ground!!

Also Marchand D'Or in 2008 was a vastly superior animal to Gilt Edged Girl.
 
Gamla Stan said:
2:35:3 you mean?

The Arc isn't the best indicator of the ground today either as it wasn't ran at the greatest clip. The two year old races and the Foret would be better indicators.

The RP Times have called it Good to Soft and I'd agree with them. It was scorching hot today with a very strong wind in the early part of the afternoon.
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lets look at he Marcel Boussac then

Finsceal Beo 94.9 ..classed as Good but obviously faster FAST GROUND

Denebola 100.9..officially heavy..but probably very soft SOFT

Sulk 103.00..officially heavy and probably was HEAVY

todays time 102.50

how does that make the ground Good/Soft?..its in the soft/hvy bracket.

don't worry about standard times..you don't need them..its more accurate to look at actual past races.

your argument about it being good to soft doesn't hold water..awful pun :)
 
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Gamla Stan said:
No but 0.2 seconds out of standard time isn't very soft ground!!

Also Marchand D'Or in 2008 was a vastly superior animal to Gilt Edged Girl.
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i wouldn't call about 5lbs vastly superior

as said..the straight track has little relevance..same at Sandown..it rarely gets opened up so isn't going to soak water up

all the times on the round track suggest slow ground
 
Grand Criterion since 2001

78.4 Naqoos.. officially good to soft but probably faster Fastest time
84.4 American Post ...officially heavy..was

today 83.00

again ...a clear soft/heavy time

how much more evidence does anyone need?..today has produced times clearly indicating SOFT ground.

i would throw those RP standards out of window
 
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Prix Foret

2009 G/S 79.2
2008 Good 79.8
2007 Soft 82.5
2006 Good 80.9
2005 Soft 82.2
2004 Soft 82.3
2003 Soft 82.6

today 82.10

again in the slow end of the scale
 
You don't seriously think the draw made the difference, do you?

She could have won by many lengths if Peslier chose - he rode it like the prep race it was for her, and was determined to only do enough. She was far superior yesterday, and is just an amazing horse.
 
Hamm said:
You don't seriously think the draw made the difference, do you?

She could have won by many lengths if Peslier chose - he rode it like the prep race it was for her, and was determined to only do enough. She was far superior yesterday, and is just an amazing horse.
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That post is complete fantasy apart from the last six words .

Peslier described her as having a hard race . She won due to the draw and the imbecilic ride given to Regal Parade giving her a lovely lead after she had pulled a bit too hard .

She is a terrific animal but almost certainly bar the weight allowance just about the same horse as Paco Boy and he had to come all the way round the field to beat her - a low draw over 7f at Longchamp is a massive advantage - the horses outside either lose significant ground or have to do a suicide charge like Goldikova last year- swop her and PB's draw and she would have been third yesterday possibly second- as 1m suits her better than 7f.
 
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Ardross, I really don't know where to start with some of your points.

Goldikova settled superbly, as well as she ever has - you are showing a lack of familiarity with her racing style if you perceive her head down and 'at it' style as being keen - this is simply how she races. And, she got no lead from Regal Parade - she was ahead of said horse for most of the race until Adrian Nicholls took it up much too early, Peslier wasn't about to be rushed and brilliantly held her back until it was time to go for home.

What weight allowance?! I am very surprised you even mention a weight allowance - this cannot be used in any comparison unless you wish to question all runnings of colts against fillies - it is absurd to bring that into the equation!

I advise you to watch the race again .. she was, one gentle slap aside, ridden hands and heels to the line, with the clear aim being to win cosily rather than stretch away - it was a prep race for her, and she could have won by further if the Breeders Cup hadn't been at the front of connections mind.

Watch how Dick Turpin and Paco Boy are ridden, both of their jockeys going for everything, and Peslier gently bringing Goldikova home. Your bias is incredible at times.
 
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Goldikova was much the better horse - Paco Boy was been ridden along from a long way out and took much too long to pick up. Peslier looked to be giving Goldikova as easy a race as possible in that ground (remember she was a possible NR) with America in mind.

Fantastic mare and it truely is ridiculous to bring in the mares allowance much in the same way it is to bring in weight for age.
 
Is that Paco boys last race?

What a superb career he has had if so. How much did he cost?
 
They said yesterday he would go to the Breeders Cup.

They must be waiting for Goldikova to retire before bringing Canford out to race again :p
 
Galileo said:
Goldikova was much the better horse - Paco Boy was been ridden along from a long way out and took much too long to pick up. Peslier looked to be giving Goldikova as easy a race as possible in that ground (remember she was a possible NR) with America in mind.

Fantastic mare and it truely is ridiculous to bring in the mares allowance much in the same way it is to bring in weight for age.
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Funny Julie made the same point about the mares allowance but I did not see that being described as ridiculous . The point is taken into account in assessing ratings.

Peslier described her as having a hard race - and Paco Boy was stuck wide all the way round. They get to that first turn so quickly over 7f that the draw bias is exaggerated . Consider Peslier's view last year that he had to rush her up to overcome a wide draw and she ran like a drain as a result.

As for failing to pick up - making up four lengths or so on that ground from a wide positions is a terrific effort .

Goldikova has beaten PB twice by a neck and once with a significant draw bias by half a length . That does not make her much the better horse.
 
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you won't win Ardross,,the bias for her is so great on here that Stan even altered the Longchamp ground to defend her last run:)

many here have he down as a 134 horse or something..you won't change their mind..its about confusing consistency with actual ability

ROG was a similar horse to G..solid consistent but never producing really big figures..and ROG was a great horse imo
 
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Ardross said:
Funny Julie made the same point about the mares allowance but I did not see that being described as ridiculous .
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Only back after a long weekend and didnt see it...but I would say the same. Did not see the same said when Ouija Board beat the colts in the Prince Of Wales.
 
Ardross said:
Goldikova has beaten PB twice by a neck and once with a significant draw bias by half a length . That does not make her much the better horse.
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On absolutes it doesn't make her quite as good. Nevertheless, I was impressed with her yesterday and she does have a remarkable record.
 
Galileo said:
Goldikova was much the better horse - Paco Boy was been ridden along from a long way out and took much too long to pick up. Peslier looked to be giving Goldikova as easy a race as possible in that ground (remember she was a possible NR) with America in mind.
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Exactly, and I thought this was really easy to see watching the race.

What was great to see was Peslier taking a pull when Regal Parade went past. Ice cool.

The best big race jockey in Europe along with Frankie.
 
Canford Cliff to chase cash rather than Goldikova.

PACO BOY HEADS TO BREEDERS' CUP
By Keith Hamer, Press Association Sport

Paco Boy will try to finally get the better of Goldikova when they meet for a fifth time at Churchill Downs next month.
Richard Hannon's five-year-old could not add to his three Group One victories when going down by half a length to Freddie Head's wondermare in the Prix de la Foret at Longchamp on Sunday.
Dick Turpin, who was just another half a length away in
third, will not run again this season, but Paco Boy is set to reappear in the Breeders' Cup Mile, rather than the Victor Chandler Challenge Stakes at Newmarket.
"The draw did us no favours at Longchamp - Goldikova is a remarkable mare and she thoroughly deserved her 11th Group One, but Paco Boy (10) and Dick Turpin (nine) were both drawn on the outside and it was always going to be tough," said Richard Hannon jnr, the trainer's son and assistant.
"If we do decide to go to Kentucky with Paco Boy we'll obviously come up against Goldikova again - we have met four times and we have yet to beat her.
"However, the draw is even more important over the mile in American racing, and maybe in Churchill Downs we will get the luck.
"Dick Turpin has enjoyed a terrific summer and can now look forward to a well-deserved winter break, but at least by the time that he comes back next year Goldikova will, in all probability, be in the breeding shed."
Hannon snr, meanwhile, will talk to the owners of Canford Cliffs this week before making a final decision on whether to aim the triple Group One winner for the Kyoto Mile Championship in Japan on November 21.
"Because Canford Cliffs won the St James's Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot he qualifies for the Japanese Racing Association bonus," the trainer told www.richardhannonracing.tv.
"The Kyoto race is worth £769,000 to the winner, but those qualified for the bonus have their earnings doubled if they finish in the first three, so if Canford Cliffs happened to win he would net a tasty cheque of £1.538million."
 
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