Miling Division 2010

Gamla Stan said:
Her best performances are always later on though in fairness.

I think Richard Hannon is one of the top five trainers in the UK for what it's worth, I just think in Goldikova you have a world superstar who simply is near on impossible to beat over a mile when she's at her peak on decent ground.

Agree with Irish Stamp about the campaign too, don't know why on earth the Hannon's are so against the Breeders Cup.
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she is a great horse - but CC is still not measurable..he has never really been tested as he is the type of horse that you point at the leader and ask him to beat it..and he does

whether people think RVW was on today or not..CC just aimed at him and passed him..without CC in the race RVW is an easy impressive winner

i'd love to see the clash..it would be some race i'm sure

I can't really blame Hannon re the Breeders..it bores the arse off me tbh..some people thinks its the bees knees..some don't..just one of those things
 
If you go back to the QA thread, I said beforehand that Goldikova might not be ready for the race.

I used Dream Eater as my marker for the QA form because he is a 'damned good marker', and I'll probably use him to mark yesterday's race. Using all my other 'damned good markers' tells me Goldikova was a good half a stone off her best.

And I agree with you on a lot of things, EC1 :) (especially about you-know-who being a total w&nker and thingumibob being a total d1ckhead :D).
 
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SteveM said:
Here you go Hamm.

Taking RPRs on a like-for-like basis. Goldikova has a 131 achieved at Deauville last season. Her next best rating is a 126 (Canford also achieved a 126 at the Curragh). Then Goldikova has a handful of ratings in the mid- to low-120s.

Canford has already scored a 124 and a 126 and whatever they rate him today. So Canford is already there on the sort of ratings being achieved by Goldikova. With only slight improvement he will also be a 130 performer, if not already after today.

However, ratings will only tell part of the story with Canford. He is clearly better than any mark he has so far run to. A horse like Goldikova will serve only to make him go a bit faster.

And for some of you others. I'm sorry for you if you can't tell just how easily he won today. As one of you said, he was super impressive. How any can think this was an all-out performance in which he ran to his extent is beyond me. He had loads in the tank the timing of the run was super confident making it appear close. He was good for another four lengths today.
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I see Canford’s been given an RPR of 129 for yesterday’s performance (Rip Van Winkle 127). Apart from Goldikova’s single best performance (131) this is superior to any of her other performances (her next best is 126 achieved against Paco Boy at Ascot, with all of her other performances below this).

So in answer to Hamm’s question of where the required improvement for Canford in relation to Goldikova is going to come from... it’s already there.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Agree entirely with DO. Goldikova's performance at Ascot was nowhere near the upper echelons of her lofty ability.

Paco Boy will never get that close to her again.
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Why not? Paco Boy ran his best that day, but Goldikova ran her second-best performance. As Canford is preferred to PB it's not such a stretch to see Canford leaving her cold.
 
EC1 said:
the day someone agrees with me on here i'll be amazed
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Happy to say I fully agree with you in face of the facts of the matter... I may have even agreed with you once before about something (...although I can't rememnber what).:)
 
Cheers Steve. 129 is much, much too high for yesterday and I'm sure based on the proximity of the third and the fourth you'd concede that?

Steve, apologies if I'm wrong about the inclusion/exclusion of the sex allowance, but Canford would need to run to 135 to beat a Goldikova who runs to 131 (131+3=134) - unless I'm mistaken, you've read this wrong. Hence, Canford has another 6 pounds to go on a rating that is already inflated.

Also, 131 is a bigger number than 129 the last time I checked! :p
 
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Gamla Stan said:
Her best performances are always later on though in fairness.

I think Richard Hannon is one of the top five trainers in the UK for what it's worth, I just think in Goldikova you have a world superstar who simply is near on impossible to beat over a mile when she's at her peak on decent ground.

Agree with Irish Stamp about the campaign too, don't know why on earth the Hannon's are so against the Breeders Cup.
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Mr Brooks' death in 1992 .The horse had been a revelation that season in the hands of Lester . I think Hannon never wanted to go back and they ran another sprinter there the following year that had a bad experience too.
 
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EC, you have made some strange comments since yesterday - what is the point of picking out a bias towards AOB that has not been evident in this thread (from anyone)?

Also, not sure where you're seeing an anti-Hannon way of thought? I don't see anyone posting such things.
 
I think part of the reason they may be against the Breeders Cup is their horses are not nominated and hence the size of the entry fee were they to travel over..
 
SteveM said:
Happy to say I fully agree with you in face of the facts of the matter... I may have even agreed with you once before about something (...although I can't rememnber what).:)
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I find I agree with EC1 when he's right and I disagree with him when he's wrong. :)
 
I don't like to labour a point but it's not nonsense. From the gates he is very slowly away, intentionally or not.
 
So, in other words any horse that is say, held up by 6 lengths or so from the leader gave the leader a 6 length start? :lol:

There are different ways of racing ... racing from the front doesn't mean you had a start, nor from behind mean you are giving a start..
 
Hamm said:
Cheers Steve. 129 is much, much too high for yesterday and I'm sure based on the proximity of the third and the fourth you'd concede that?

Steve, apologies if I'm wrong about the inclusion/exclusion of the sex allowance, but Canford would need to run to 135 to beat a Goldikova who runs to 131 (131+3=134) - unless I'm mistaken, you've read this wrong. Hence, Canford has another 6 pounds to go on a rating that is already inflated.

Also, 131 is a bigger number than 129 the last time I checked! :p
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You are correct. If she did run to 131 Canford would have to run 3lbs better to beat her. As Canford is less exposed my contention is that he would. Goldikova's best at this corresponding stage was 123.
 
Aragorn said:
I don't like to labour a point but it's not nonsense. From the gates he is very slowly away, intentionally or not.
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In doing that he conserved his energy, Rip Van Winkle on the other hand was using up his energy going forward.

The only time a horse is "gifted" a head start is in NH races when you see them skipping off a bad flag start or when it is a ridiculously slow pace - neither occurred yesterday.
 
SteveM said:
You are correct. If she did run to 131 Canford would have to run 3lbs better to beat her. As Canford is less exposed my contention is that he would. Goldikova's best at this corresponding stage was 123.
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Yes, but you'd hardly call Canford Cliffs a late devloper though, no?

Do you really think he could run to 135?

Lets hope he turns up at Deauville, as this talk from Hannon they may finish him for the year (in July no less!) is not indicative of a Champion miler.
 
Gifted might be pushing it, but with the pacemaker ignored, Rip Van Winkle got a soft time in front, as the bunched finish and poorish time would suggest.
 
Hamm said:
Yes, but you'd hardly call Canford Cliffs a late devloper though, no?

Do you really think he could run to 135?

Lets hope he turns up at Deauville, as this talk from Hannon they may finish him for the year (in July no less!) is not indicative of a Champion miler.
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Look I might be wrong, but I've had as much confidence in this horse as his trainer since before Ascot last season. And apart from only a modestly good start to this season ('only' placed in the Guineas), he hasn't let me or anyone else down so far (three Group 1s later).

I think he is a prototype miler with gears and will prove to be one of the decade's best at the trip. So my answer to your question is "yes".

Today's paper (Paul Curtis) already puts him just a length sort of Goldikova and RVW on their best performances. Since Canford won with plenty in hand yesterday I'm very hopeful.
 
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davidjohnson said:
Gifted might be pushing it, but with the pacemaker ignored, Rip Van Winkle got a soft time in front, as the bunched finish and poorish time would suggest.
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He got an easy lead, but I am not sure a slow pace on a track like Goodwood shows Rip Van Winkle in his best light either.

Look, CC was clearly the best horse on the day and comfortably so, but I expect better from Rip Van Winkle as the season progresses.
 
SteveM said:
Today's paper (Paul Curtis) already puts him just a length sort of Goldikova and RVW on their best performances. Since Canford won with plenty in hand yesterday I'm very hopeful.
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Another gem from the Racing Post then ... despite the fact that THEY have rated Canford 129 and Goldikova effectively 134, they say there is a length between them ... it's such a pity that we have to put up with such tripe in the only racing paper available...
 
Hamm said:
Another gem from the Racing Post then ... despite the fact that THEY have rated Canford 129 and Goldikova effectively 134, they say there is a length between them ... it's such a pity that we have to put up with such tripe in the only racing paper available...
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You'd have to take that up with Paul Curtis (I think he's saying 129+, i.e. saying that 129 was the bare performance, but that he'd be capable of closing the gap even more.
 
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