Yes, but didn't you say he said that based on their best performances? One cannot just add on a length here and there because they feel like it ... the RP have rated them 129 and 134 - where he gets a length from I have no idea and is yet another example of the poor quality of their current staff.
Miling Division 2010
- Thread starter Guest_
- Start date
It's quite annoying... but I agree with you. (Although I'd prefer to be kinder and interpret it terms of absolutes).
Last edited:
...Try Raceform Update, they talk a lot of sense in that.
Can be good on occasions but the last time I bought it there was some mad man trying to tell me Fame and Glory would beat Sea the Stars!
davidjohnson
At the Start
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Messages
- 3,434
They are making rather a mess of his season so far then aren't they.
By giving RVW 127 and allowing a couple of pounds (i.e. about a length) grace for the beating (seems about reasonable).
Last edited:
Can be good on occasions but the last time I bought it there was some mad man trying to tell me Fame and Glory would beat Sea the Stars!
...obviously an off day (...season).
Would agree with that.
The better races for him are arguably in June and July so no idea what they are targeting. The Breeders Cup won't suit him so have little idea why they keep leaving him short.
Isn't Rip's target the Juddnonte (York), or possibly the Irish Champion Stakes.
With Canford likely to go for the Moulin or the QE II he'd likely want to stay out of his way and step back up to 10 furlongs.
That's like saying that the start is of little consequence in a flat race which is a strange position to take - The start is equally if not more important in a mile race. You've also said yourself that the pace was slow so Rip probably didn;t use up much energy to get to his racing position. What i'm trying to get across is that despite falling out of the gates, racing against a horse that likes to force the pace who had a great position and effectively dictated the race (and the race was slowly run) Canford Cliffs was still able to give him all that rope and reel him in.
I don't think Rip ran much below what he did last year - The race panned out perfectly for him and all this they cocked up malarkey is excuse making. If they ran the race again I don;t think Moore would do much differently.
On this occasion I agree with you, they would not ride him differently....not the attacking ride they attempted last year when they had him at the peak of his powers. The pace of the race is not an excuse, they choose to ride him like that - presumably with the thinking that he was not up to a full flat out assault. I cannot for one moment think they fancied their chances of out pacing Canford Cliffs in a slower run race.
As for not been far behind last years form - I would not compare a flat out 4 length defeat of Beethoven on a similar level to a comfortable near 3 length defeat of Paco Boy.
As suggested by the 127 Rip put in an 'on song' performance comparable with his standard of performance and only a little short (by 3-4lbs) of his very best. Had he run to his best ever it is uncertain that he would have won, since Canford was brought with a timed run to beat this particular horse, with no regard for the also rans.
I kind of agree - I can only presume that they are targetting the QEII, Breeders Cup mile and Japan/Hong Kong later in the season. Remarkable really how undercooked he was now for Ascot.
Canford skipping taking on the best milers in Europe then?
Contrary to what is increasingly appearing like hope on your part that he'll shut up shop, I'm hopeful we'll be seeing a lot more of Canford this season and next.
Like I say wasn't the target meant to be York this season (i.e. Juddmonte), followed by the Irish Champion (both at 10 furlongs). I don't believe they'd want to take on Canford again in the QE II.
Last edited:
trackside528
At the Start
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2006
- Messages
- 5,377
Not sure they would fancy taking on Goldikova over a sharp mile on fast ground. All roads lead to the Classic I would think.
From a commercial perspective, given that he has already established himself as a "top miler" for stud purposes, I'm not sure the mile races (including the QEII or Marois/Moulin) are the be all and end all at this stage. I would think they would take a place in a Classic (especially on dirt) over an impressive QEII victory.
They ran their horses time and time again against STS last season - I doubt they are going to start avoiding CC now.
Fame And Glory is their Irish Champion Stakes horse. I would be really surprised if Rip did not go to Ascot for the QEII considering they have no other milers of note.
I think they have suggested all along that the Juddmonte was his main target. I'm sure they will go the 10 furlongs route with him now, especially with Canford and Goldikova mopping up what's left at a mile.
The Juddmonte International was mentioned after the race - and I agree there is a chance he will go for that. But they will not run Fame and Glory and Rip Van Winkle both in the Irish Champion Stakes - one (Rip Van Winkle!!) will be aimed at the QEII.
I was talking about before he reappeared this season. They talked about starting him off at a mile and stepping him up for the Juddmonte. I think that route is even more likely now.
If the want to run Fame in the Irish Champion Stakes as a prep for the Arc I'd agree Rip would be less likely to run in that, although they've done this sort of thing before.
On balance I'd say the Juddmonte has Rip's name on it.
Last edited:
Fame and Glory runs in the Royal Whip, as a prep race for the Irish Champion. Rip Van Winkle may well return to 10 furlongs for the Juddmonte but he will not take on F&G in the Irish Champion if the Montjeu colt lines up.
There is nothing to stop Rip Van Winkle taking in a 10 furlong race and reverting to a mile as he did successfully last year. If Rip Van Winkle did not take in the Irish Champion then the only real alternative is the QEII.
There is nothing to stop Rip Van Winkle taking in a 10 furlong race and reverting to a mile as he did successfully last year. If Rip Van Winkle did not take in the Irish Champion then the only real alternative is the QEII.