Novice Chasers 2011-12

Don't think Al Ferof is an Arkle winner in a hard year but he did jump well today.

On the face of it Nick Williams had a hard day with Shalimar and Gauvain coming down but For Non Stop ran a cracker and has claims in the Jewson depending on who runs in the race. He has fallen twice at Cheltenham though.
 
Owner says he goes for the Arkle, Euro.

I thought Al Ferof jumped as well as any novice i've seen. We know he has the speed for 2m at Cheltenham so i would say with Arkle race conditions in mind, he is a huge bet at 7s. He's already shown himself to be much better over fences than Peddlers Cross so i'm confused why that one keeps getting smaller when all he has done is beat slowcoaches in slow run races around gaff tracks.
 
I would want to be with Al Ferof at 7/1-he did what he had to do yesterday-nothing more.Ruby riding him on the day is essential.
 
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On The Bridle said:
Peddlers beat a G1 winning hurdler in close to a course record last time. He will chew up the rest of these Arkle pretenders.
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Think about the course, then name me 5 decent 2 milers who have ran there.

Minella is not a grade 1 horse, and if he is to be up to anything, it will be over close to 3m.

Peddlers will be taken off his feet in the Arkle.
 
That's a careless statement about a horse that battled all the way to the line against Hurricane Fly.
 
Like he was going to be taken off his feet in the Champion Hurdle?? All of your Peddlers is too slow rubbish is wearing a bit thin frankly Hamm.:rolleyes:
 
Rubbish?

Here's an idea. Instead of taking up forum space making little 'in' comments with people you can text and hence not wasting all of our time, read what i wrote ... I BELIEVE PC will not perform in the Arkle because he will only have run in small fields against poor horses at a slow pace at gaff tracks that couldn't be less demanding is about as unsuitable a prep as you can get for an Arkle. I never said PC is slow.

Your retort? That's rubbish. Good one. Like your 'i should take Cantoris' childish urgings 'like a man'. It would be fantastic if you could articulate just one reason as to why you think PC is not disadvantaged that isn't 'PC is a machine!!!'.
 
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SlimChance said:
That's a careless statement about a horse that battled all the way to the line against Hurricane Fly.
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I'm not talking about PC the hurdler here. Chasing is a different game, and he won't have much worthwhile experience of it come the Arkle.
 
I've got James De Vassy in a couple of likeable TTF lines so hoping to see him out this month. Anyone heard anything about him?
 
You are dodging all over the place as usual Hamm. You cannot discount hurdling form when considering the potential of Novice Chasers. Peddlers achieved an official rating of 170 over hurdles - your fancy Al Ferof's highest official mark was 142. That only leaves him with 28lbs to improve between the codes. Mineral Class won a G1 at Sandown over 17f and achieved a mark of 148 in doing so. MC was always considered by connections to grow into a better chaser so for Peddlers to dismiss him the way he did means something to me. Al Ferof struggled to beat For Non Stop a decent handicapper over hurdles, yesterday. Your notion of running around Gaff tracks is ridiculous - this horse already has three victories over fences if you include his PTP win.
What is the record of the highest rated hurdler in the Arkle? Pretty decent you will find.
 
I like Al Ferof because he is a good jumper, but he didn't exactly show a lightening turn of foot himself in the Supreme. He struggled when they quickened and it was only in the straight, when they hit the rising ground, that he started to stay on well. I doubt Peddlers Cross will have a problem with the Arkle trip. It comes down to jumping and then ability. That's why the good hurdlers win it. As long as they can jump, they will be bang there two out.
 
Just my 2 penn'orth, but I can see where Hamm is coming from with Peddlers Cross. The horse always struck me as one whose bare minimum is a stiff 2 miles (it's no coincidence he was ridden as aggressively as he was in the CH), and I've little doubt his long-term future lies over further.
By its very nature (inexperienced horses, bigger obstacles, and more of them) the Arkle isn't run at the attritional pace of a Champion Hurdle, and he just might be found wanting if it comes down to a speed test at the business end.
That's not to say he isn't a very high class horse, or that he won't win an Arkle, just that, as Hamm suggests, it may not be as cut and dried as some already see it.
 
Peddlers Cross didn't get a stiff 2m when winning the Fighting Fifth last season, and the notion that he doesn't have the speed for the trip has absolutely no basis, imo.

If pace was any kind of a concern in the Arkle, Maguire would simply send him on and make his own pace - the horse bing classy and versatile enough to do so, without being at any kind of tactical disadvantage. And besides, he'll get a stiff 2m in the Arkle anyway!

Top-end novice chases are routinely contested by small fields - as increasingly will be the Arkle; given the Festival graded and handicap options now open to novice chasers at 2m4f. Dismissing Peddlars Cross on the basis of his participation in small-field outings is grasping for reasons to get him beat, imo. Finian's Rainbow had faced a total of ten horses in three outings prior to last season's Arkle, and Captain Chris won a 3-runner event in his Festival prep. Class, speed and jumping ability are what's needed to win an Arkle - not running in big field novice chases at tracks at the fashionable end of the spectrum.
 
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Is there any chance someone other than Reet could read what i wrote?! Never said he hasn't the speed for 2m, but that it will be his lack of experience running for the first time at a fast pace against good horses over a testing course could see him taken off his feet - i.e., it doesn't matter, to a degree, how good a hurdler you are, if you can't jump fences at a very quick pace, you will be taken off your feet. I would have thought people would want to discuss something like this rather than just take it as a given.
 
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Cantoris said:
I like Al Ferof because he is a good jumper, but he didn't exactly show a lightening turn of foot himself in the Supreme. He struggled when they quickened and it was only in the straight, when they hit the rising ground, that he started to stay on well. I doubt Peddlers Cross will have a problem with the Arkle trip. It comes down to jumping and then ability. That's why the good hurdlers win it. As long as they can jump, they will be bang there two out.
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Isn't this what Captain Chris did in this year's Arkle?
 
On The Bridle said:
You are dodging all over the place as usual Hamm. You cannot discount hurdling form when considering the potential of Novice Chasers. Peddlers achieved an official rating of 170 over hurdles - your fancy Al Ferof's highest official mark was 142. That only leaves him with 28lbs to improve between the codes. Mineral Class won a G1 at Sandown over 17f and achieved a mark of 148 in doing so. MC was always considered by connections to grow into a better chaser so for Peddlers to dismiss him the way he did means something to me. Al Ferof struggled to beat For Non Stop a decent handicapper over hurdles, yesterday. Your notion of running around Gaff tracks is ridiculous - this horse already has three victories over fences if you include his PTP win.
What is the record of the highest rated hurdler in the Arkle? Pretty decent you will find.
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Oh dear. You think Al Ferof was rated 142 over hurdles?! :lol::lol:
 
On The Bridle said:
You are dodging all over the place as usual Hamm. You cannot discount hurdling form when considering the potential of Novice Chasers. Peddlers achieved an official rating of 170 over hurdles - your fancy Al Ferof's highest official mark was 142. That only leaves him with 28lbs to improve between the codes. Mineral Class won a G1 at Sandown over 17f and achieved a mark of 148 in doing so. MC was always considered by connections to grow into a better chaser so for Peddlers to dismiss him the way he did means something to me. Al Ferof struggled to beat For Non Stop a decent handicapper over hurdles, yesterday. Your notion of running around Gaff tracks is ridiculous - this horse already has three victories over fences if you include his PTP win.
What is the record of the highest rated hurdler in the Arkle? Pretty decent you will find.
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Do you have evidence for your last point?
 
I fear you doth protest too much, Hamm.

Most of the above is revisionist horse-shit. WTF else are people supposed to read into the bald, unqualified statement "He'll be taken off his feet", other than you think he's too slow for 2m??

It's only latterly that you have added the if's, but's and maybe's. Maybe you should read your own posts before submitting, to ensure that they do actually convey the message you want to get across.
 
Grassy
I'd take issue with the contention that Newbury isn't a stiff course. With its sweeping bends and lack of undulation there's little to break up the pace, and I'd have it second in severity only to Cheltenham, among the grade 1 courses. Allowing that, on g/s ground and off a good pace, it's noticeable that Peddlers Cross "stayed on strongly to forge clear final 75yds" (RP) in the Fighting Fifth, rather than showed any great change of gear.
It's the same reasoning that marks the difference in test between an Arkle and a Champion Hurdle, as horses cannot jump fences as quickly as hurdles, thus introducing more, and bigger, breaks in pace at the obstacles, and it's those breaks which may work against a horse of PC's nature. For sure, he's going to have to be ridden aggressively, what's not so sure is that his style will be as effective over what constitutes a lesser test of stamina.
 
Grasshopper said:
I fear you doth protest too much, Hamm.

Most of the above is revisionist horse-shit. WTF else are people supposed to read into the bald, unqualified statement "He'll be taken off his feet", other than you think he's too slow for 2m??

It's only latterly that you have added the if's, but's and maybe's. Maybe you should read your own posts before submitting, to ensure that they do actually convey the message you want to get across.
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GH, if you read what I wrote leading up to that statement, you'll see why I said it. I don't understand why coming up what that opinion, which at the very least is an original thought, based on clearly defined reasons, causes such put downs as a ripost (not from you). Do people on here just want their own opinions reinforced, or are they open to discussion?
 
Grasshopper said:
I fear you doth protest too much, Hamm.

Most of the above is revisionist horse-shit. WTF else are people supposed to read into the bald, unqualified statement "He'll be taken off his feet", other than you think he's too slow for 2m??

It's only latterly that you have added the if's, but's and maybe's. Maybe you should read your own posts before submitting, to ensure that they do actually convey the message you want to get across.
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Eh, I think you'll see I did that before the 'He'll be taken off his feet' quote:

Hamm said:
Owner says he goes for the Arkle, Euro.

I thought Al Ferof jumped as well as any novice i've seen. We know he has the speed for 2m at Cheltenham so i would say with Arkle race conditions in mind, he is a huge bet at 7s. He's already shown himself to be much better over fences than Peddlers Cross so i'm confused why that one keeps getting smaller when all he has done is beat slowcoaches in slow run races around gaff tracks.
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Your thoughts on this are indeed original Hamm, debating the merits or otherwise of these horses is what this forum is about. To say a horse will be taken off it's feet, certainly to me anyway, and some others on here obviously, would be taken as the horse being too slow!! It may be a Gaff Track but Peddlers jumped very very well around there - at least as proficiently as Al Ferof has in his two races. We can argue for the next three months or so but the only definitive proof will be in March. Let's hope all the main protagonists get there in good form and we should witness a great race.
 
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