Hamm, have you dodged the question on Al Ferof's run in the Supreme or was it just an oversight? I had a look at the replay and he is clearly cooked for toe in the dip, although he wasn't dropped completely and this is why he was close enough to use his stamina to full effect. Is that not the same as Peddlers Cross though? Quick enough not to lose his place and leave him in a good position to stay on up the hill? Any horse who can keep with them in the dip will always have a chance up the hill if they are good enough.
Novice Chasers 2011-12
- Thread starter granger
- Start date
I'm not dodging anything. You can't win a Supreme against horses like Spirit Son and Sprinter Sacre and not have toe, it's just not possible. I am not arguing in any way that Peddlers Cross is slow. What I am saying is the reason I think he will be taken off his feet is that he will have to jump much more quickly at a quicker pace than anything he has been used to, and in my opinion, it is unlikely he will be able to do this against top quality horses. Al Ferof has already won around Cheltenham and Sandown, and the latter a Grade 1. He is jumping like a stag at pace against quality horses. That to me says he is a much, much better propositon for the Arkle.
In summary, and this seems to be the point people are misinterpreting - I don't think Peddlers is slow, but jumping at speed is not something you can just hope happens on the day, and that is why I think he will be taken off his feet.
In summary, and this seems to be the point people are misinterpreting - I don't think Peddlers is slow, but jumping at speed is not something you can just hope happens on the day, and that is why I think he will be taken off his feet.
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Bar the Bull
At the Start
I think I saw four Cheltenham winners at Sandown.
Fingal Bay
Sizing Europe
Gibb River (Country)
Al Ferof
Fingal Bay
Sizing Europe
Gibb River (Country)
Al Ferof
On The Bridle
At the Start
He'll be too slow for 2 miles over fences for me (hard to say about a CH runner up, I know). Sprinter Sacre is all over the bet for the Arkle for me, was always going to be much better as a chaser.
Hamm your post of 26th August Post no. 5 Peddlers Cross thread.
Hamm your post of 26th August Post no. 5 Peddlers Cross thread.
Peddlers should go for the Haydock race first, which would prove a good test. He is a particularly good jumper if a little deliberate, but that is no bad thing for Cheltenham. He travels extraordinarily well between jumps and is also capable of quickening. It will take something very special to beat him (I speak as one who has also backed Sprinter Sacre). However, the Arkle is shaping into a great race.
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Did someone not make the point earlier that Finians Rainbow and Captain Chris had no more experience than Peddlers Cross. Champleve only had one run over fences before he won it. You say he will be "taken off his feet" but that is not really what you mean. You are saying he just wont jump well enough at speed and that will put too much pressure on him to stay up with them. So its got nothing to do with whether you think he is quick enough, you simply don't think he will jump well enough. I haven't seen either of his races but I believe they went a bit of a clip in the Minella Class race. Do you have evidence from that race to support your theory that he won't jump well at speed or is it just a sticking finger in the air exercise?
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
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- Nov 14, 2006
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- 16,050
I think the point is moot, Reet, given the Arkle will be run over a stiff 2m.
I guess my position is that Peddlers has jumped pretty-much impeccably in both chase starts, and it is a dangerous position to assume that he won't be able to jump at Arkle pace based on those two trips round Bangor. He absolutely has to be given the benefit of the doubt in that regard (given the way he has travelled/jumped in all his starts - hurdles or fences), rather than written-off as some kind of boat who is simply waiting to get nailed by speedier types. There is not a scrap of evidence in the form-book to support such a theory - in fact, all the evidence points to it being thoroughly not the case.
Hamm, I acknowledge your earlier statements and rationale. I simply think it is wrong.
Gibb River beaten in a bad hcp , dont think the form will work
the other 3 interesting
FB very good
SE trends against but looks the best 2 miler
AF very good jumper and good time, looks the one for the Arkle at the moment
I know there are exceptions (i.e., Champleve) but they shouldn't for me be strong favourites.
A chaser can be taken off his feet because he cannot jump at the speed required and is hence always falling behind at every fence. However, you get what I mean which is the important thing, the rest is semantics.
Will he go for the Arkle? He could go for the Jewson. The Arkle is looking a hot race to me.
Now Menorah has recovered from his foot infection Menorah, PH is hoping to get a race into him before xmas, was jumping & travelling well but had a jockey on that day who had probably lost a bit of confidence, 12's is a decent alternative.
Is there an Irish challenge for March? Finding it hard to spot one, Solwhit the most obviousif he recovers but even then may go for the Jewson, grasping at straws but Blackstairmountain is entered at Clonmel on Thursday - can find no news on Avrika or Day Of A Lifetime though both have had entries but failed to show.
Is there an Irish challenge for March? Finding it hard to spot one, Solwhit the most obviousif he recovers but even then may go for the Jewson, grasping at straws but Blackstairmountain is entered at Clonmel on Thursday - can find no news on Avrika or Day Of A Lifetime though both have had entries but failed to show.
Katharine
At the Start
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- Jan 11, 2009
- Messages
- 493
I'm with those who like Al Ferof for the Arkle. I see no reason at all to run him over further at the Festival. I think the faster pace of the Arkle will suit him down to the ground.
To my mind, it would be a waste to run him in something like the Jewson.
As for the Arkle being a hot race, so far some of the supposedly leading candidates either haven't jumped a fence in public or else have yet to complete.
Al Ferof is more than worth his place in the line up.
To my mind, it would be a waste to run him in something like the Jewson.
As for the Arkle being a hot race, so far some of the supposedly leading candidates either haven't jumped a fence in public or else have yet to complete.
Al Ferof is more than worth his place in the line up.
I'm not denying he's worth his place in the Arkle, but he's won over further as a hurdler. Maybe the Jewson is the race for him.
True as well... but connections don't appear to be entertaining anything other than the Arkle for him.
...I'm simply asking the question which will Al Ferof go for. Seems to me he could run in either race, while some others seem more firmly headed for one or the other. He's second favourite for both races and you can back him at 7/1 for either.
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...you may well be right (although Nicholls may also not have a better candidate for the Jewson either, which is also a championship race)... hezz also makes an argument for the Arkle. I'm not sure which way it will go though.
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I'd definitely back Al Ferof (I'm assuming Grands Crus in the RSA) if I knew he was going for the Jewson and would be fearful of him against the two I have in the Arkle. He looks like he could be nearly good enough to beat Peddler's.
Lets get it straight. I understand what you are saying, but the rest of it is far more than semantics.
So, if a chaser has not shown that he can jump at speed (ie he has never had to jump at speed), you assume the worst? That's illogical.
You have not been able to confirm whether you think the race against Minella Class was run at a decent pace and if it was, where is your evidence that Peddlers jumped badly. I didn't see the race but you are saying he has not jumped at pace, yet the RP said it was run at a surprisingly fast pace given MC was having his first run over fences. Stop dodging the questions.
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