Novice Chasers 2011-12

Look, i made my point he is not a master trainer. If anyone disagrees fine, but it doesnt make me a fool to have an opinion. I think he is good but not yet with a top prospect.
 
Hamm, you need a smaller shovel. :cool:

What defines a "master trainer" anyway?

Is it big-race wins? In which case, is Noel Chance a master trainer?

Is it a numbers game? If so, should strike-rate be completely ignored? Or string-size?

Trainers surely have to master many disciplines to execute their duties, and whilst he cannot compete in a numbers game, Nick Williams would appear to have most of the other boxes safely ticked.

I'm not convinced your dim view of him is at all justified, to be honest.
 
I like Al Ferof who goes chasing this year however Nicholls attributes his Supreme Nov. win to stamina. He is quoted amongst the leaders in the Arkle betting. What Festival race would people consider entering him for at this early stage? I'm tempted to take a small amount at 14's for the Arkle but PN's comment gives me concern.
 
its a bit like being a master jockey ;)
its about doing the best with what you've got i would think

look at Cecil when he hadn't the fire power

if you stripped the top jockeys of all their top rides and all jockeys rode the same level of horses..none would look like they were that much better than the rest..same with trainers
 
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rorydelargy said:
It's nice to see those who claimed Williams ruined Diamond Harry as a novice are using his Hennessy victory as proof of the aforementioned argument, when the horse Williams bought himself for £11k won his owners 9 times that in prize money. That Paul Duffy should give Hamm a call, rather than pissing his money away on lost causes like DH (earnings £225k) and Reve de Sivola (bought by Williams for 6k - current earnings 162k).
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Who was it who suggested Mr Manley should take Dick Turpin away from Hannon ?
 
Very nice from Cue Card. He was keen early doors but looked more impressive the faster they went. Can't help feeling he'll be overbet no matter where he runs given his history though.
 
Euronymous said:
Very nice from Cue Card. He was keen early doors but looked more impressive the faster they went. Can't help feeling he'll be overbet no matter where he runs given his history though.
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You may well be right but a taking performance and he jumped really well at the end of the race.
 
Connections are entitled to be very pleased with that, he had a nice introduction and jumped well.
 
Silviniaco Conti disappointing I thought. I saw him described by Andrew King in the Weekender as having the "make and shape of a chaser", and I'd have to disagree, simply on looks if nothing else. He's rather sparely made, and not the strapping sort you'd refer to in those terms. That doesn't mean he won't make a chaser, but he's far from guaranteed to match his hurdles form over the larger obstacles in that regard. I thought he'd benefit from a long break after looking over the top when last seen, but that display wasn't as encouraging as I expected, for all he might not have been as fit as Cue Card.
 
I just hope the Tizzards don't have a rush to the head as they did in his novice hurdle season and run him in a championship race as a novice .
 
Fair point re fitness Rnry. I remember Tizzard saying last year that he would not trust himself to have the horse anything but straight first time out. I'd say a mid season break is mailed on again. I'd gladly take a bit of 16/1 for the Arkle though. He's capable of being top class over fences.
 
rorydelargy said:
Silviniaco Conti disappointing I thought. I saw him described by Andrew King in the Weekender as having the "make and shape of a chaser", and I'd have to disagree, simply on looks if nothing else. He's rather sparely made, and not the strapping sort you'd refer to in those terms. That doesn't mean he won't make a chaser, but he's far from guaranteed to match his hurdles form over the larger obstacles in that regard. I thought he'd benefit from a long break after looking over the top when last seen, but that display wasn't as encouraging as I expected, for all he might not have been as fit as Cue Card.
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PN did pre warn that he wasn't anywhere near fully wound up
 
SlimChance said:
I'd gladly take a bit of 16/1 for the Arkle though. He's capable of being top class over fences.
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It's not a bad price at all if that's his ultimate target. Something about the trainer I don't trust though, his programme last year was a bit daft.
 
Worth reading Nicholls Betfair column regarding Silviniaco Conti - says the horse will come on a lot for the run.

Tizzard's are going well at the moment so I'd doubt he could get CC much fitter, that said he quickened up very well after the last and it will be interesting to see how he progresses.

Martin
 
I would say it's a given that Cue Card was straight today but I don't see that as a negative. It was a lovely introduction but hard to know what the plan will be from here. He could go to Cheltenham for the Open meeting I suppose.
 
Cue Card won one of the best beginners chases you will see this season. Three high class horses who all jumped reasonably well. I thought Cue Card was clever when he was wrong. He could easily have made a hash of a few fences if he didn't have the aptitude. I'm not sure how good Tizzard was at presenting him to his fences but that's another story. Hopefully they will just go for a winners of one, then one of the trials for Cheltenham. I just don't see him as a two miler but then not sure about RSA distance.
 
I've always been of the opinion Cue Card needs a trip and think things will happen too quickly for him in an Arkle. It would be nice to see him try a 3m Ch soon.
 
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