Novice Hurdlers 21/22

It was the jockeys post race thoughts that got me wondering about his preference for soft. He did linger on it longer than one would expect.

Come March day1, it won't be too quick for him in any case

What comes out of the race him aside, does remain to be seen
 
I really don't get why Sir Gerhard is 5/1 for the Supreme.

These Champion bumper horses never win the Supreme I think only one has in 30 years.

There have been a lot better horses around that tried like Dunguib, Envoi Allen, Cue Card but either they never ran in the race or they got beaten.

If the Irish are going to make a dent in the race this year they better come up with something a lot better than Sir Gerhard IMO
 
Honestly if none of these good novices stay hurdling next year they should consider binning the Stayers and the CH and just having the one Championship Hurdle race over 2 and a half miles.
 
granger said:
It was the jockeys post race thoughts that got me wondering about his preference for soft. He did linger on it longer than one would expect.

Come March day1, it won't be too quick for him in any case

What comes out of the race him aside, does remain to be seen
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Can't see better ground being a problem; or many other hurdlers - Nap.
 
He makes a fair point though. The Champion hurdle has become a consolation prize for 2 milers that can’t jump a fence.
 
Are mares less inclined to jump a fence? If that is the case, then haven’t we been served up a treat in the last few years, with three mares winning the last seven renewals of the best hurdle race in the calendar? Have the top trainers now fully exploited the potential of placing their mares at this race in particular?
 
The Champion Hurdle a consolation prize......you got a short memory Wilson and normally you think before you go to print.

Honeysuckle, Faugheen, Annie Power, Hurricane Fly, Istabraq, Kribensis, Night Nurse, Sea Pigeon, Monksfield, Comedy Of Errors, See You Then, Bula, Persian War, Salmon Spray.

True revered Champions by anyone who loves NH racing and natural hurdlers in their own right most of which that were so talented Chasing was never an option.

Minella Indo,Native River, Lord Windamere, Looks Like Trouble,Mr Mulligan,Cool Dawn,Garrison Savannah,Norton's Coin, Need I go on? wouldn't have been sighted in a Champion Hurdle and that is why they ended up going chasing.

Year after year bar the Kauto Star V Denman days the Champion Hurdle thread has been the most debated race on any racing forum you care to mention

Consolation prize my backside.:)
 
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Len Madeiros said:
Are mares less inclined to jump a fence? If that is the case, then haven’t we been served up a treat in the last few years, with three mares winning the last seven renewals of the best hurdle race in the calendar? Have the top trainers now fully exploited the potential of placing their mares at this race in particular?
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More so protectionism of breeding status

Honey has laready won a point as an example
 
I see someone suggested one of Nicky's pair going for the Champion Hurdle could be an option...Nick Luck I think.

Of course knowing what it takes to win a Champion Hurdle Nicky all but laughed in his face.

As good as they look the difference between a novice Hurdle and the Champion Hurdle is like trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a push bike.

As for next season with a very important developement year behind them who knows.

Nicky has said they are both Chasers in the making but he has never run 2 horses in the Arkle as far back as I can remember.

Splitting these two monstors is very difficult. Constitution has beaten a good animal in Jetolle with ease but the time was nothing special this time.

Jonbon beat an Irish horse that hasn't run since but everything that Knappers Hill who finsihed 3rd has beaten seems to have won 1 or 2 races since.

I don't think Nicky has a clue and Nico has never ridden Jonbon over hurdles or Aiden Constitution Hill so their opinions are just that.

I suppose Nico who spends all his spare time at Seven Barrows would be the better judge but he must be a bit biased.

But it looks invevatble that Nicky will split them given the chance.

Don't be fooled by him he's being very dimplomatic at the moment as his best 2 owners are involved.

Can't imagine him saying to JP don't run yours in the Supreme he doesn't stand a chance of beating Constitution Hill
or saying to Michael Buckley the opposite.

Someone has to say switch mines to the Ballymore because next year one IMO is going to stay hurdling despite what Nicky says.

The Champion Hurdle is worth 120k more than the Arkle and as said no way do both compete for the same prize next year that would be absolute nuts and finacially crazy.

Plus what's to say the yard can't win the the 2022 and 2023 Arkle's?

Nicky was about to say Haydock can be a bog when Nick Luck interupted him but as I said that has to be a wory for Jonbon and we might have to eight to the Contenders to see how he has come on.

Nicky Henderson must be box walking himslef to sleep wondering to what the best soultion is and right now it not running 2 obvious future Champions in the Supreme.
 
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Tanlic said:
The Champion Hurdle a consolation prize......you got a short memory Wilson and normally you think before you go to print.

Honeysuckle, Faugheen, Annie Power, Hurricane Fly, Istabraq, Kribensis, Night Nurse, Sea Pigeon, Monksfield, Comedy Of Errors, See You Then, Bula, Persian War, Salmon Spray.

True revered Champions by anyone who loves NH racing and natural hurdlers in their own right most of which that were so talented Chasing was never an option.

Minella Indo,Native River, Lord Windamere, Looks Like Trouble,Mr Mulligan,Cool Dawn,Garrison Savannah,Norton's Coin, Need I go on? wouldn't have been sighted in a Champion Hurdle and that is why they ended up going chasing.

Year after year bar the Kauto Star V Denman days the Champion Hurdle thread has been the most debated race on any racing forum you care to mention

Consolation prize my backside.:)
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When I said it has become a consolation prize Fist, I meant in recent years and didn’t mean it was like that in the 60s & 70s but your post actually re-enforces my point.

The Champion Hurdle has an incredibly rich history and has long been my favourite race of the calendar, the list you put down being a fine one but then look at the more recent winners you mention.

Hurricane Fly, Istabraq & Kribensis were flat horses who were never going to jump a fence. Similar comments apply to Annie Power for, while she didn’t run on the flat, she was of a flat pedigree.

That just leaves Honeysuckle & Faugheen as the exceptions and as Granger pointed out, the value of Honeysuckle as a broodmare has obviously influenced their decision, but as long as we have ex PTP winners such as Shishkin, Appreciate It - who was originally intended to go chasing pre setback - and any one of Constitution Hill, Jonbon or Sir Gerhard winning the Supreme then the race will continue to be a stepping stone for novice chasers with the best of the rest 2m hurdlers battling out the following year’s Champion Hurdle.

Maybe it was the same in the 60s & 70s but I wasn’t around…
 
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wilsonl said:
When I said it has become a consolation prize Fist, I meant in recent years and didn’t mean it was like that in the 60s & 70s but your post actually re-enforces my point.

The Champion Hurdle has an incredibly rich history and has long been my favourite race of the calendar, the list you put down being a fine one but then look at the more recent winners you mention.

Hurricane Fly, Istabraq & Kribensis were flat horses who were never going to jump a fence. Similar comments apply to Annie Power for, while she didn’t run on the flat, she was of a flat pedigree.

That just leaves Honeysuckle & Faugheen as the exceptions and as Granger pointed out, the value of Honeysuckle as a broodmare has obviously influenced their decision, but as long as we have ex PTP winners such as Shishkin, Appreciate It - who was originally intended to go chasing pre setback - and any one of Constitution Hill, Jonbon or Sir Gerhard winning the Supreme then the race will continue to be a stepping stone for novice chasers with the best of the rest 2m hurdlers battling out the following year’s Champion Hurdle.

Maybe it was the same in the 60s & 70s but I wasn’t around…
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The whole of NH racing's a consolation prize for nags too slow for flat racing, and the CH the most discussed owing to Grassy banging on about Hurricane Fly, year after year.
 
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reet hard said:
The whole of NH racing's a consolation prize for nags too slow for flat racing, and the CH the most discussed owing to Grassy banging on about Hurricane Fly, year after year.
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To be fair, I only had to keep banging on about Hurricane Fly, because half the forum refused to believe his form chance; claiming all he'd done was win "soft Irish Grade 1's". Also worth stating that I haven't really had a strong opinion about a Champion Hurdle since Faugheen won, and I would expect some degree of leniency from reet's kangaroo court as a result.

Finally, everyone knows that Flat racing is the consolation prize for horses too weak and/or afraid to go jumping. It's Bernard Bresslaw versus Charles Hawtrey i.e. not a fair fight. ;)
 
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Desert Orchid said:
Just looking back at the result, the form on the face of it is nothing special with the second and third rated 125 and 129. I wonder what the handicapper will do. 149/150?
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148 it is.

I wonder if they'll be tempted by the Betfair now. That looks very conservative.
 
3 lbs higher than Jonbon which is meaningless at this time.

If by chance Haydock is a bog and Jonbon goes for and wins the Conteders hurdle
he could end up rated in the 150's well ahead of Constitutution Hill:blink:

Funny old world. Betfair? :nono:
 
If Willie runs both Sir Gerhard and Dysart Dynamo in the Supreme, would that be a tip in itself for whatever he runs in the Ballymore?
 
Constitutuin Hill's rating is a load of bollocks he is no more a 148 horse than flying in the air.

One look at Constitution Hill and surely, the way he handles himself, his balance his jumping, his high cruising speed and his ability to quicken we are looking at a 155+ horse all day long.

last year. Appreciate it beat a 148 rated horse by over 20 lengths..I'll be damned if he would have beaten Constituatuin Hill 148 or Jonbon 145 by that distance if at all lif they were runners last year.

The only use these horses have for a rating is if the were to run in the Betfair or some other handicap but there's absolutely no chance of that happening.
 
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