Poll: Brexit - Two Years After

[gigilo]

Still don't get anypoint,at last GE labour and tiries got 40% in big turnout yesterdat brexit party have got a measly 31.6 % on a 10% eligible vote in a euro election where the domegraphic is older people voting its virtually insignificant bat the fact tommy robinsin got his arse kicked into touch,the brexit party won't even be around in 12 months they will all be voting tory and labour..Most of them are just a bunch of misfits like anne widdicimbe and clare fox and gofd knows who else..

 

[gigilo]

Heartening to see the Greens do well. I voted for them too and we now have a Green MEP in Yorkshire, which is nice

So far, 'pro-Brexit' parties have 35% of the vote and 'anti-brexit' parties 40%, with the 23% who stuck with Labour and Conservatives unassigned to either grouping

The psephologists will no doubt try to put some flesh on the bones of the mysterious 23% to glean their Brexit stance but my tentative view is that overall nothing much has changed since the Referendum with the country still split 50-50ish

Only 31.6% of the vote and 29 seats remembering these are the hardcore and older tory voters that were always going to vote,plus labour leavers just 13% to me the figures seem to be in favour of remain by far more than in recent times you have to presume that tory vote and labour party vote are mostly remainers surely..Plus a 36% turnout and we know all the brexiteers voted so how can it be an ebdorsement of leaving especially with no deal,that should definitely not be involved.

 

[Drone]

Only 31.6% of the vote and 29 seats remembering these are the hardcore and older tory voters that were always going to vote,plus labour leavers just 13% to me the figures seem to be in favour of remain by far more than in recent times you have to presume that tory vote and labour party vote are mostly remainers surely..Plus a 36% turnout and we know all the brexiteers voted so how can it be an ebdorsement of leaving especially with no deal,that should definitely not be involved.

With NI still counting its 34.9% 'pro' as UKIP still managed 3.3%, so they have to be added to your 31.6%

Turnout for the Referendum in 2016 was ~72%, twice what it was for this

Remain constituencies showed an increase in turnout from the 2014 elections and leave constituencies a fall

I presume nothing about the diehard Conservative and Labour voters. Perhaps they're either 'soft brexiters' happy with May's deal or prevaricating fence-sitters who can't make up their mind what they want, and have therefore found a soulmate in Corbyn

All in all, don't draw any hard-and-fast conclusions about shifts in public opinion on Brexit based on this latest vote, though I stick with my lily-livered assertion that little has changed

 

[gigilo]

With NI still counting its 34.9% 'pro' as UKIP still managed 3.3%, so they have to be added to your 31.6%

Turnout for the Referendum in 2016 was ~72%, twice what it was for this

Remain constituencies showed an increase in turnout from the 2014 elections and leave constituencies a fall

I presume nothing about the diehard Conservative and Labour voters. Perhaps they're either 'soft brexiters' happy with May's deal or prevaricating fence-sitters who can't make up their mind what they want, and have therefore found a soulmate in Corbyn

All in all, don't draw any hard-and-fast conclusions about shifts in public opinion on Brexit based on this latest vote, though I stick with my lily-livered assertion that little has changed

They don't look very strong figures for brexit though,considering they were saying it was a second referendum they did all the campaigning labour never even tried,they got all the coverage and all the momentum,i don't believe people would come out in much bigger numbers to vote for farage all he's going to do is disrupt everythng..and he may now force a tory brexit through which will still be a big mistake and i even think that could end up cosying the tories of they do it..

 

[Marb]

The single biggest problem I have with Nigel Farage, is like most bookies, his arguments are always weighed up to about 140 percent in his favour. A formidable politician, but I voted remain in 2016, and I think the Labour hierarchy are right on the money, to offer up another referendum at this time. As my old lady just rightly said, Martin, the North never was the place that won elections. the South East was.

 

[gigilo]

The single biggest problem I have with Nigel Farage, is like most bookies, his arguments are always weighed up to about 140 percent in his favour. A formidable politician, but I voted remain in 2016, and I think the Labour hierarchy are right on the money, to offer up another referendum at this time. As my old lady just righly said, Martin, the North never was the place that won elections. the South East was.

Looking at twitter corbyns finished,the same theme came through when i was watching through the couple of months before the euros everyine was making it clear on his twiiter account thast they wanted him to do something or resign,everyone switched to liberals and greens...They have gone from a position of looking like they couldn't lose the next election to a position of whatever they do they lose,already the peterborough by election has turned into brexit story,i took 4/7 i couldn't understand the betting in that seat as its an ex tory seat won by the mp that got jailed and the vote there was 60% leave the looked 10s on shots from the off i think they were 5/6 the pair at one point..2/7 now will be 1/7 tomorrow..

 

[Marb]

Yeah, It is very odd.

So he still wants to leave, but wants to keep freedom of movement?

I've got friends /drinking partners who voted leave. Their main argument was they wanted back 'control over 'their country'.

They were trying to give me a nudge and a wink to do vote leave, but I don't let the mob tell me what to do. Not even my drinking pals.

A few of the Newcastle taxi drivers, (not all nice people) ,were laughing their heads off about Corbyn becoming leader.

I get in a taxi and it instantly turns into a conversation about politics, and how Jeremy Corbyn is an idiot for wanting to abandon Trident.

When I get in a random taxi I'm not here to talk about ******* politics or my personal life to people who I don't bloody know.

My point is, why is Corbyn appeasing these lot I don't know???

They are the same geezers I guarantee who are voting for The Brexit party now.

The Northeast is mainly a white area, but there are Black people up here and the ones I have met I've become good friends with.

People are respectable, quite poor, but Newcastle for example has the universities. They are not full of far right Ukipers.

They are young people trying to have the time of their lives, White, Black or Brown as long as you behave yourself everything's not too bad.

There's always a few dickheads but let's be honest it's probably a small minority compared to the rest of Europe.

I think when the stories came out about the Asian peodophile rings that arrived in Geordieland, (or were already here), it's wound up the wrong people???

However, it further gets complicated, because there is also tribal warfare and competition about who owns the big taxi companies. They've all been bought out and merged.

The Asians apparantly 'muscled in' on the Geordies.

The odd thing is though, the owners of these Geordie firms, who were Geordies themselves, are the ones who actually sold the firms out.

I am trying to make sense of it tbh.

I'd like to know who Labours Chairman Ian Lavery, (the one ordering Jeremy Corbyn to stick with leave), is getting his advice from???

 

[gigilo]

The constituencies up north the vote for leave seats was like 45-50% i don't know what their mindset is labour were down 20% in seats unheard of,everywhere eklse its little englander stuff i really don't understand what they are thinking up north there what they expect to gain etc,they are voting for an elitist who has people like clare fiox backed up by american corporates driving their fruitcake libertarian agendas to pollute and drive more disastrous capitalism and the IEA driving it also..I have nothing against people voting leave as long as they understand all this,of course all the older vote they just want out bar anycost i very much doubt these labour constituencies undersatand the comeback of it all,what will happen unless corbyn or someone better does something is labour voters will leave in droves and end up voting for the green party or gritting their teeth and liberals and will be stuck with the tories for another 10 years...Leave under a leftwing government then i would obviously have less concerns,this is why i said i don't mind people voting leave as long its not under these huge corrupt corporates driving the agenda..tories/farage cannot be trusted..It's inevitable now leaving,its just making sure we don't leave without a deal,that would be a nighmare scenario.


And manchesr and liverpool brexit were annihilated so i take from this these two cities are much more clued up on their politics,looks like some areas are easily divided by lies and deceit unfortunately,also have to allow that the vote was won by older voters on a poor turnout as well so basucally 9% of the electirate voted brexit hardky a rinnging endorsement..

 

[Marb]

Edit.

 

[Marb]

People have overdosed on Jeremy Kyle. There's nothing wrong with living the moral life I guess, or laughing at people who don't match the viewers and Jeremy's standards.

He's another well-to-do white bloke telling the nation's poor and less fortunate how it is. Queen Victoria would have loved him.

I wish Jeremy Kyle would sit these super billionaires down, getting press injunctions, after watching their missus's giving strangers blowjobs for some entertainment. What about them aye, Jeremy?

Re- the level of intellect up North, and whether people are clued up.

There are some very intelligent people that would make some people down South look stupid. So I don't quite agree with that. I would have liked to have moved to Liverpool but I wasn't given a choice. We can't all live where we want

Life's short, like it, lump it, or make the most of it. I still maintain I did better getting up North at 18 and out of London, than staying in London. I reckon I'd be dead, in prison, a permanent druggie, or completely mad if I'd stayed where I was.

Each to their own.

 

[gigilo]

People have overdosed on Jeremy Kyle. There's nothing wrong with living the moral life.

He's another well-to-do white bloke telling the nation's poor and less how it is. Queen Victoria would have loved him. I just wish old Jeremy Kyle would sit down these super billionaires, getting press injunctions, watching their missus's giving strangers blowjobs for ******* entertainment. What about them aye, Jeremy?

Re- the level of intellect up North, and whether people are clued up. There are some very intelligent people that would make some people down South look stupid. So I don't quite agree with that. I would have liked to have moved to Liverpool but I wasn't given a choice. We can't all live where we want

Life's short, like it, lump it, or make the most of it. I still maintain I did better getting up North at 18 and out of London, than staying in London. I reckon I'd be dead, in prison, a permanent druggie, or completely mad if I'd stayed where I was.

Each to their own.

I never said anything to do with intellect,it's more a drive of making people they feel like they've been robbed of something that they never had in the first place especially if they've got nowt farage has made sure of that with the BBC and other media outlets,or will have in the future regardless and as i said the demographic is largely better off older voters voting leave and i said nothing wrong with voting leave but if you're coming from a left perspective why the hell would you trust farage/johnson the erg mob..This is the most twisted thing, non politcal farages message lol,with his extreme views on other things its just laughable half the people who are voting for brexit he wouldn't **** on if they were on fire that's the reality,in grand scheme of things this brexit thing is nothing and a distraction from all the tory mess..

 

[Warbler]

The constituencies up north the vote for leave seats was like 45-50% i don't know what their mindset is labour were down 20% in seats unheard of,everywhere eklse its little englander stuff i really don't understand what they are thinking up north there what they expect to gain etc.

What they don't seem to realise is that Farage is an extreme conservative who would happily introduce the Singapore economic model that would have the voters living in sacks whilst an elite investor class made the decisions to enrich themselves

The nearest parallel I can see is with the poorer states of America in the south who have been persuaded to vote against their own economic interests for decades now as the GOP has successfully introduce inflammatory hot button issues which they harvest votes from, and which doesn't cost them anything by way a spending commitment. In America they've been able to lever things like gun rights, abortion, and gender neutral bathrooms, which they then wrap up with a good old dose of religious endorsement, and hey presto. Suddenly you're able to cultivate a 'team' and begin to persuade people that they have to align with a strict tribal view

The same thing is beginning to happen with Brexit when traditional Labour areas like Ashfield and Bolsover have suddenly been persuaded into adopting a hot button topic that they've frankly shown just about zero appetite for previously, but they've now been engaged as being on that team, and tribal loyalties will often defy all logic

The same thing happens with the sponsoring party too. So afraid were the GOP of Donald Trump running independently that they allowed him to enter their primary when they had within their gift to disqualify him. We're seeing it with the Tories now. So frightened are the Tories of Nigel Farage that they think the only way they can beat him, is to become him

Labour might have to allow a couple of these seats to go. It won't be long before the constituencies concerned realise they're voting for Thatcher on acid, and a political party that sees them as being little more than minimum wage slaves

 

[Maruco]

There's potentially a bigger problem looming. Can you imagine if we have a General Election in the coming months? The Brexit issue would undoubtedly leave us with a hung Parliament, and with the fundamental polarising issue we're faced with, it would be impossible to form a Government.

Like it or like it not, we need this Conservative Party to finally take us out or keep us in Europe before an election. It doesn't matter what side your on, they must either negotiate a deal, come out without a deal, or take the issue back to the country. They can fall on their swords afterwards. An election must be fought after Brexit/No Brexit is finally decided and delivered, or things will get a whole lot worse than the current fiasco. The County will end up stuck in limbo and paralysed.

Despite the utter turmoil that would create, I'm sure we can still rely on good old Jeremy to put forward his next vote of no confidence in the Government, and put the country on its knees though.

 

[Marb]

Warbler, I agree with your first paragraph about the investor class.

But the one thing you have missed out, is that these same people, 'that don't care about the investor class ' taking over the country'....... also believe that the 'investor class' have been running this country for a very long time, have they not???

Banking crisis? No regulation of the banks? Thatcher.... and what before that???

Let's not escape the facts to suits our arguments.

 

[gigilo]

What they don't seem to realise is that Farage is an extreme conservative who would happily introduce the Singapore economic model that would have the voters living in sacks whilst an elite investor class made the decisions to enrich themselves

The nearest parallel I can see is with the poorer states of America in the south who have been persuaded to vote against their own economic interests for decades now as the GOP has successfully introduce inflammatory hot button issues which they harvest votes from, and which doesn't cost them anything by way a spending commitment. In America they've been able to lever things like gun rights, abortion, and gender neutral bathrooms, which they then wrap up with a good old dose of religious endorsement, and hey presto. Suddenly you're able to cultivate a 'team' and begin to persuade people that they have to align with a strict tribal view

The same thing is beginning to happen with Brexit when traditional Labour areas like Ashfield and Bolsover have suddenly been persuaded into adopting a hot button topic that they've frankly shown just about zero appetite for previously, but they've now been engaged as being on that team, and tribal loyalties will often defy all logic

The same thing happens with the sponsoring party too. So afraid were the GOP of Donald Trump running independently that they allowed him to enter their primary when they had within their gift to disqualify him. We're seeing it with the Tories now. So frightened are the Tories of Nigel Farage that they think the only way they can beat him, is to become him

Labour might have to allow a couple of these seats to go.It won't be long before the constituencies concerned realise they're voting for Thatcher on acid, and a political party that sees them as being little more than minimum wage slaves

That is exactly my point,bar liverpool and mancgester who can see through it they totally distrust the tories and farage talking of an alliance ffs there are also lots of tories that distrust them dominic grieve for example,michael heseltine i think you are right these people have got so entrenched by an ideology that's going to do nothng for them bar giving the older southerners who will have a little chuckle to themselves...It's not just the north though same in the midlands,telford just up the road from me an absolutely awful place people are exactly the same,working class areas am not even convinced its a nationalistic thing i reckon alot of it is race issues,you see liverpool and mancheser rejecting brexit very diverse then you see telford you may think its diverse there but i can assure you they are not paryicularly open minded there..The perfect recipe for something devisive for those sort of people to vote for driven by farage and his libertarian cronies and don't underestimate how many people are like this there are swathes oif them in certain areas..

 

[Marb]

Maruco, he's giving you a second referendum which you want, the Tory party aren't are they?

Sorry the Labour Leader hasn't done things in the timely manner you all seem to expect.

But you don't call the shots, he actually does...

 

[Maruco]

I think you've completely missed the point Martin. Whether Corbyn was in the position to offer the Country a second referendum or not the Country would still be split. It will continue to be split until it's all finally put to bed one way or the other. But the point is he won't be in Government because it'd be impossible to form one. A hung Parliament and deep political divides would be pretty much a disaster whatever your views on Brexit or your political allegiance. If we can't form a Government it doesn't matter one jot what Corbyn or anyone else for that matter wants to offer. None of it has anything to do with a 'timely manner' or 'what people seem to expect'.

And for the record he doesn't call the shots on anything right now, nor will he or anyone else unless we have finality on Brexit. We have to have an election based on UK policies, rather than Brexit. You don't need a degree in Politics to understand it. The European Election results tell you all you need to know about what is likely to happen if there were to be an Election before Brexit. It would be an election that's outcomes would be based on Brexit and not UK Policy, and the divide would remain, and in some ways polarise further.

If Corbyn gets his way by forcing an Election, he FULLY understands the implications of what he's doing, and he'd be doing so FULLY in the knowledge that he'd likely plunge the Country into what would be fundamental chaos and crisis.

FWIW I'm happy to declare that I'm a remainer who, given the potential outcomes, understands that however unpalatable leave is it's better than what Corbyn would do to us all if he were to force through a vote of no confidence prior to a final Brexit outcome.

Finally, whilst not relevant to what I've said above, but as you brought it up, is he offering a referendum? Have I missed some news? He's changed his position so many times now perhaps I've now lost track. One of us has!

 

[Marb]

Yes and I think you've missed an even bigger point that really isn't actually that hard to understand?

Another referendum would mean, that a vote to stay, (which is what you want) would by default mean that we wouldn't be LEAVING the European Union.

You might still have a hung parliament, but we wouldn't be LEAVING the European Union.

Unless the vote did return another LEAVE vote, which would simply mean we are in the same boat, that the "worst Prime Minister ever' David Cameron, has put us in?

Is that understandable?

 

[Maruco]

Explain how Corbyn is going to give you a referendum if he can't get into power ffs.

He's not Prime Minister now so he can't call a second referendum? The European Elections suggest we'd highly likely have a hung Parliament and he can't form a Government so how will he call for a referendum?

So no. It's not understandable in any way at all!

 

[simmo]

Corbyns Brexit policy at present appears to be "watch the Tories make a cvnt of it and hope that he can pick up the pieces at some indefinable later date" rather than having anything positive to add to the discussion.

The man is a waste of fvcking space and it's ridiculous that the 2nd largest party in the country has such a useless tosser at the helm.

 

[Desert Orchid]

Corbyns Brexit policy at present appears to be "watch the Tories make a cvnt of it and hope that he can pick up the pieces at some indefinable later date" rather than having anything positive to add to the discussion.

The man is a waste of fvcking space and it's ridiculous that the 2nd largest party in the country has such a useless tosser at the helm.

Agree.

 

[Marb]

Explain how Corbyn is going to give you a referendum if he can't get into power ffs.

He's not Prime Minister now so he can't call a second referendum? The European Elections suggest we'd highly likely have a hung Parliament and he can't form a Government so how will he call for a referendum?

So no. It's not understandable in any way at all!

OK, I'll try but the logic is not simple.

Tell me when has he EVER had the power or authority to hold or arrange an election since the 2016 referendum result?

Riddle me that, please.

He has been ASKING for one.

He can't ******* get one!!!!!!

 

[simmo]

OK I'll try but the logic is not simple.

When has he ever had the power or authority to hold or arrange an election since he the 2016 referendum result?

Riddle me that, please.

He has been ASKING for one.

He can't ******* get one!!!!!!

If he was competent to hold the post he's in, he would have won the election that he did contest. Instead he did "better than expected" and has somehow managed to bluff losing the most winnable election in the last 10 years into a further term of power at Labour.

Perhaps his votes of no confidence, as he pleads for another election in a manner that Oliver would be proud of, would have more substance if he had a coherent policy on Brexit.

 

[Marb]

Corbyns Brexit policy at present appears to be "watch the Tories make a cvnt of it and hope that he can pick up the pieces at some indefinable later date" rather than having anything positive to add to the discussion.

The man is a waste of fvcking space and it's ridiculous that the 2nd largest party in the country has such a useless tosser at the helm.

Steady on, Sim.

He's probably the only bloke who will offer Scotland another independence vote IF he gets in Downing Street.....

Not even the great Scots can have your cake and eat it...

Ireland hasn't had their cake and eaten it have they, why should you?

You lost your referendum result, was that Mr Corbyn's fault as well?

I say again, don't let your biases get in the way of the facts in such a momentous period of political history.

 

[simmo]

Steady on. He's probably the only bloke who will you lot another independence vote IF he gets in Downing Street.

Not even you Scots can have your cake and eat it...

The time isn't right for another IndyRef - the amount of votes that the Tories got in Scotland at the last general election is evidence of that. It'll be another generation down the line before we're ready for another try at it. Brexit or otherwise.