Poll: Brexit - Two Years After

Stay or Leave

  • Stay

    Votes: 23 60.5%

  • Leave

    Votes: 15 39.5%
  • Total voters
    38
i think there is a very good economic argument for leaving europe, especially for people who are at the lower end of the wage scale
and mass immigration from europe is not good a thing. im not as well read up on this subject as others, but im not as thick as others either. the government will have to do lot more for younger people and and train them, instead of just relying on cheap labour from europe. its complex subject economics, just because you feel you know or understand a few facts, doesnt really add up to much imo.
 
ulleyseys46 said:
i think there is a very good economic argument for leaving europe, especially for people who are at the lower end of the wage scale
and mass immigration from europe is not good a thing. im not as well read up on this subject as others, but im not as thick as others either. the government will have to do lot more for younger people and and train them, instead of just relying on cheap labour from europe. its complex subject economics, just because you feel you know or understand a few facts, doesnt really add up to much imo.
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Do you think a Tory govt will ensure that the fruit is picked in the fields exclusively by its native workforce, and ensure that our care homes and health service are staffed exclusively by its native workforce? And then the market will determine that these people are paid what they are worth, because there is an imbalance between demand and supply of available labour? Of course, let's not forget how many care homes are closing now because private owners are forced to pay the minimum wage, and how our native workforce "doesn't do that type of work" of working in fields. And, further, the same Tory govt will then ensure the upskilling of the remainder of the workforce to meet the challenges of work in the 21st century? I don't.
 
after the black plague in the middle ages, when there wasnt a big enough workforce to carry out the work that needed doing,
employers had to pay a lot more money to get the jobs done, they are creating a society where people are working and still in poverty,
thats a major reason why the majority of people voted for brexit. seems like some shrewd people on this thread didnt even see it brexit coming. FWIW i didnt vote, would of voted for brexit.
 
Yes, I can see some parallels with the Black Plague.

The poverty in the UK is nothing to do with the EU - that's about UK sovereign govt policy. The EU trade policy just means that we trade more efficiently.
 
Now I'm confused. Why does the robot revolution mean we should Brexit? I first heard about the fourth industrial revolution at school in the 80s.
 
7 million jobs could be lost over the next 20 years as technology change sweeps through the workplaces, thats a good enough reason
to leave the european union and control our borders and stop the free movement of people coming to great britain.
 
Ok, are you now forecasting mass unemployment, even if we stop immigration from the EU? That would be one tough pill to swallow - and no govt would survive on that premise. The robots in the fields picking crops, in the care homes wiping bums, will be replaced by ancillary occupations - we will need a an upskilled workforce to survive. Back to square one.
 
There is no reason why we cannot bring in migrant workers to pick fruit or to wipe old folks' bums post-Brexit.

It will be OUR decision based on what we need.

In the pre-EU 1960's and 1970's it was easy to go on fruit-picking "adventures" on the Continent and equally easy for Continentals to come here. It was easy for students to go on trips staying with European families to pick up the lingo, and similar trips to the UK were reciprocated. So many Remainers seem to believe we are going to draw an Iron Curtain across the English Channel. It's nonsense.
 
Len Madeiros said:
Now I'm confused. Why does the robot revolution mean we should Brexit? I first heard about the fourth industrial revolution at school in the 80s.
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Try keep up Len. Asimov predicted decades ago that robots would carry the black death when they invaded.
 
archielab said:
There is no reason why we cannot bring in migrant workers to pick fruit or to wipe old folks' bums post-Brexit.

It will be OUR decision based on what we need.

In the pre-EU 1960's and 1970's it was easy to go on fruit-picking "adventures" on the Continent and equally easy for Continentals to come here. It was easy for students to go on trips staying with European families to pick up the lingo, and similar trips to the UK were reciprocated. So many Remainers seem to believe we are going to draw an Iron Curtain across the English Channel. It's nonsense.
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I wouldn't let your fellow brexiteers hear you say that. They'd probably lynch you.
 
Len Madeiros said:
This is an interesting one, DO - particularly as you think your brothers are more intelligent than you. Could I just ask that when they argued the economics of Brexit, did you ever get fed the "we're better off making our own deals - we don't have to pay tariffs" line - which has been shot out of the water now, as we now actually know that most of the goods we import from outside the EU arrives tariff-free, as a result of all those cracking trade deals the EU negotiated on our behalf. Did you ever get the "well, the EU are still bound to trade with us on our terms: we have a massive deficit with them". Again, that argument has been smashed out the park, as the EU protects the interests of the Single Market. This is exactly the shite us fervent Remoaners had to counter back in 2016, but the population did not know enough to make an informed decision back then. I'd be very surprised to hear anyone still argue that - unless, of course, they think it'll all be alright because Great Britain is so fvckin great that we can do what we like, to whomsoever we like. Then the argument just boils down to old-fashioned "English entitlement".
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To be honest, I can't remember the discussions that well. I think I was half in shock at discovering that they had actually voted for Brexit. But, as I say, I tend to feel intellectually cowed in their presence - they are vastly more widely and deeply read than I am - and accept that they wouldn't vote to leave without having given the matter very serious consideration. Another brother who is heavily into his political reading voted Remain so it's hard to know what weight they gave to each aspect of the debate.

I'm so sick of the whole fiasco I can't be arsed engaging in further debate with them about it.
 
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The problem is that when we inevitably make working here more difficult ie, introducing visas, we will find that migrant labour will exercise its own decision and not come here.

Our decision to Brexit and stick two fingers to the rest of Europe IS an insult and will be viewed as such. It will be our greatest foreign policy failure since the war.
 
Looking forward to all four wheels jumping off the Brexit wagon soon, and ozgood pissing his baked-bean-stained joggers with rage, when it eventually comes to pass.
 
Looks like the game is up. This is, literally, the best deal on offer from the EU: we stay in a customs union, where we accept their rules and tariffs, in order to secure our own tariff-free and frictionless trade. As us Remoaners had predicted all along. The alternative? Mogg's cliff-edge no deal. No responsible govt would ever have risked that, so this is what May has had to settle for. They didn't "need us more than we needed them" in the end, did they?

This deal will now tear Parliament apart, before a second referendum (that inevitably will occur because Parliament cannot determine the issue) tears the country apart again. My only hope is that voters will realise the enormity of what they unleashed in 2016, and many will vote Remain. Maybe even the poisonous press will change their tune. I can easily see at least one high-profile Leaver changing their minds, too - Gove would be my bet. This is why referenda and democracy do not always provide perfect solutions or even preferable outcomes - a hard lesson learned.
 
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Instead of having the parliamentary vote as May's deal or no deal, it would be interesting if she framed it as May's deal or remain.
 
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