trudij
Senior Jockey
So the only thing we are going to be leaving is the UK as it stands at the moment?
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Poll: Brexit - Two Years After
- Thread starter Drone
- Start date
trudij
Senior Jockey
Two resigned already this morning,the meltdowns begun..
Up to three now - god id hate to be a politician it’s a horrible job.
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I'm really not seeing where she goes from here?
She clearly can't get the deal through parliament. Her attempt to be all things to all people has failed
So far as I can work out she's looking at a hard Brexit or withdrawing Article 50 (although she might not have realised it yet)
She clearly can't get the deal through parliament. Her attempt to be all things to all people has failed
So far as I can work out she's looking at a hard Brexit or withdrawing Article 50 (although she might not have realised it yet)
She diid say that 'no brexit' was an option, did she not? And even McDonnell [sp] is talking about a people's vote. Chris Leslie was brilliant as usual in Parliament today. And Rees Mogg shows his true character. If only Shakespeare was alive today, what a play [or should I say tragedy] this would make. Steve [from Sodem] should have a statue after all this!
Oh it's definitely Shakespearean. It's a tragedy and farce in one, a tale of one mans ambition and how it went wrong and is now forcing him to live a life of pretence for the punishment that would become of revelation is greater than that were he to continue to strut and fret is hour upon the stage
You also have Cameron of course as an early departure. A sort of cross between King Lear and King Duncan
Basically this all unravelled when David Cameron told the BBC's James Landale that he wouldn't seek a third term. It's a classic example of the 'Butterfly Effect'.
All that Theresa May has done in between is demonstrate that she'd make an infinitely better senior civil servant than she is a politician
You also have Cameron of course as an early departure. A sort of cross between King Lear and King Duncan
Basically this all unravelled when David Cameron told the BBC's James Landale that he wouldn't seek a third term. It's a classic example of the 'Butterfly Effect'.
All that Theresa May has done in between is demonstrate that she'd make an infinitely better senior civil servant than she is a politician
You guys are aware 17.4m voted to leave and they’ll be even more on a 2nd referendum. Why does everyone think a 2nd referendum changes anything? This whole process has shown the EU and UK politicians for what they are, a bunch of self serving, anti democratic chancers and it will just reinforce what people voted for the first time around.
Even my parents who are ardent remainers are so disgusted by this deal and the sovereignty give away that they would vote leave and are advocating no deal now.
Even my parents who are ardent remainers are so disgusted by this deal and the sovereignty give away that they would vote leave and are advocating no deal now.
We're leaving so just row in with what's being negotiated. 17.4m voted to leave & 16.15m voted to remain so no-one's going to get everything they wished for. And my parents would be disgusted by all the veiled threats taking place.
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Beef or Salmon
Rookie
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63m people voted for Trump, so not sure what your point is re numbers, both Trump and Brexit proved that Democracy is inherently flawed.
Please tell us uninformed souls what exactly the EU have supposedly done wrong in their negotiations with a MS who proudly decreed that they would not only leave the EU but would bring an end to the EU?
Please tell us uninformed souls what exactly the EU have supposedly done wrong in their negotiations with a MS who proudly decreed that they would not only leave the EU but would bring an end to the EU?
gigilo
Senior Jockey
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These peoples vote pamphlets coming through the post how long has this been happening,was really surprised yesterday when two came thriugh the post Anna soubrey someone representing scientists for EU and someone representing the NHS campaigning here seems a huge campaign,are all areas getting these leaflets?Found it quite interesting as i think its a big brexit vote here our very estranged conservative MP Dan Kawczynski a most rancid individual supports JRM for pm,one of his less controversial views.
He is in favour of Fox hunting,he left his wife and daughter and declared himself to be bi sexual but now has a male partner,at the same time wants the abortion time lowered to 12 weeks,he voted against the house of lords on blasphemy he still wanted it to be libel.. he also overclaimed 4000 rent on expenses,he berated a one legged wheelchair user for begging outside parliament..also tried to make a young researcher go ona date with an old businessman for whixh he got pulled up on by Eleanor laing..He also wrote a book telling of how wonderful saudi arabia was and the book he had wrote was ''the most pro saudi ever written''(being a bisexual man seemed to make no difference i wonder if money was involved)!
A right piece of shite this bloke is going on about blasphemy laws yet endorsing the saudis,yet happily they still vote him in currently been serving since 2005,i just read this on wiki i never even realized the bloke was such a wrong un!!
He is in favour of Fox hunting,he left his wife and daughter and declared himself to be bi sexual but now has a male partner,at the same time wants the abortion time lowered to 12 weeks,he voted against the house of lords on blasphemy he still wanted it to be libel.. he also overclaimed 4000 rent on expenses,he berated a one legged wheelchair user for begging outside parliament..also tried to make a young researcher go ona date with an old businessman for whixh he got pulled up on by Eleanor laing..He also wrote a book telling of how wonderful saudi arabia was and the book he had wrote was ''the most pro saudi ever written''(being a bisexual man seemed to make no difference i wonder if money was involved)!
A right piece of shite this bloke is going on about blasphemy laws yet endorsing the saudis,yet happily they still vote him in currently been serving since 2005,i just read this on wiki i never even realized the bloke was such a wrong un!!
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You seem very confident ... how large is your wager before the result .. and how big is your popcorn :lol:
Len Madeiros
Rookie
I absolutely don’t get this. Why would anyone who voted Remain now vote Leave because of the sovereignty issue? The other deal on the table is a no deal, crash out on our arses. Do your parents want that? That’s a monumental shift from previously voting Remain.
To all Remoaners, who would have us painted into a corner.
Read, digest, - and weep for your country:
Former Australian PM Tony Abbott...
"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.
Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get.
The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence.
But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?
A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.
Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are.
Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers.
Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.
Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.
Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).
UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum.
As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it."
Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015
Read, digest, - and weep for your country:
Former Australian PM Tony Abbott...
"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.
Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get.
The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence.
But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?
A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.
Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are.
Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers.
Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.
Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.
Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).
UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum.
As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it."
Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015
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archie
Senior Jockey
Len Madeiros
Rookie
Tony Abbott is a tool. He’s not even in favour of his own country cutting the apron strings from mother ship UK. He has no credibility. He’s full of slogans, but has no proper idea of the next steps after a vote to leave. And he can fukc off, poking his oar in from Australia.
Beef or Salmon
Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2013
- Messages
- 1,024
And I know it's Brexit so facts are not relevant but there are more mistruths in that article than I have seen in a very long time! His knowledge of trade agreements and customs leaves a lot to be desired!
It isn’t about everyone getting what they wanted is it. The country voted to leave the 16.15m lost that’s democracy. Just because I vote for Labour and the Tories win but don’t get a majority that should mean I get a little of what the labour manifesto had in it.
LMFAO. Democracy is flawed how? Because you voted remain and didn’t win? Trump is anti democratic because he won on a collegiate system that has been in place for as long as anyone can remember? Would it be closer to say democracy is flawed for you because you’re a liberal and You don’t like Trump? I’d bet that’s a 1.01 shot.
I said both the EU and Uk politicians have shown themselves for what they are not just the EU. In all fairness the EU have negotiated like anybody with half a brain would have. Its the UK and our negotiators that have been flawed because they are compromised with their positions on the vote.