Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe 2013

A dazzling performance especially under the circumstances jinny highlights - the slow pace probably helped her in that she was able to make ground impressively in what would have been a difficult part of the race had they been going faster but she was still spectacular .

Orfevre - is a very good horse but has been enormously overrated .

Intello - I am still doubtful he stays the trip he looked sure to be second .

ROTW - not Ryan Moore's finest hour.
 
Watching it again having got back tonight, that move she makes at the top of the straight is staggering.

She leaves what are probably the two best three year old middle distance colts in the world and one of the top three older horses in the world so probably three of the top five middle distance horses in the world for absolute dead. They are left to look like 80 rated slouches. Brilliant.

For all that Zarkava was brilliant with magnificent exuberance, there is no denying that Treve beat a stronger field.

Beaten horses wise, I was wrong about Orfevre, he proved he still is the force of old and posted a fantastic effort and I feel a bit sorry for the horse. He's an outstanding colt and probably hasn't won the races he deserves. I'm sure he'll have a crack at the Japan Cup and/or the Arima Kinen but he has some formidable opponents waiting for him there. One of those has to be Kizuna who really had the ground go against him, he looked like he would go with the filly for a stride or two and fast ground would see him turn into a brilliant animal. I hope they bring him back but take in the King George too, Ascot would suit him down to the ground I think.

Intello also ran a blinder and like Euro says, is probably a better horse over a slightly shorter trip but he didn't exactly "not stay" (as much as I hate that term) but just got outclassed. You'd think the Ganay, Prince of Wales, Eclipse etc. would be on the cards for early next year before an Autumn campaign taking this race in. Also an advert for the likes of Dawn Approach & Toronado's talents.

Penglai Pavilion looks a nice animal but needs soft ground and you just know he's a certainty to go to Dubai, get ragged to hell on unsuitable ground to try and win a Sheema and then pop up at Kempton for that race all their old yacks run in. Sheikh Mohammed should take a look at the owner of the winner of this race for how to win top races.

I also hope Novellist gets better and can prove what a good horse he is, he would be an interesting one for the Japan Cup too.
 
Interesting comment by edgt about Motivator.....................................who now stands at the Head's stud (from 2013).
 
Watching it live, given how she pulled having been caught wide, then made that move, I expected her to fall in a massive hole. Wonderful performance.
 
Think thats a bit harsh on Ryan Moore, Ardross. ROTW got badly outpaced at one stage as they quickened up before staying on strongly. Had the overall pace been stronger his stamina would have come into play more. But I don't think Moore was to blame.
 
ROTW just lacks the tactical pace for a race like the Arc and as already discussed, the UK & Irish Derby form is total pony. If they hadn't got Leading Light, they would surely be tempted to send him down the Cup route.
 
yesterdays was a race with almost all the best horses in the division, only missing Novellist and Gold Ship

it is unusual this race run in a slow pace

the winner put a very good performance, in the level of Danedream and slightly better than Zarkava, she had the ground and had a good trip from that draw,
doesnt look one to train on as a 4yo but the level of form today was quite good


Orfevre, dissapointing, choose a bad day to run a stinker, didnt travel as as he can and I think he run like a horse that has been overtrainer and is sick,
I have the same feeling of Federer winning 16 slams, is quite good but both are underachiever


Kizuna bad run, didnt enjoy the ground and is not improving in the level I expected


Intello, good run, the pace help him but they can regret not to have choosen the Champion st
 
sunybay said:
yesterdays was a race with almost all the best horses in the division, only missing Novellist and Gold Ship

it is unusual this race run in a slow pace

the winner put a very good performance, in the level of Danedream and slightly better than Zarkava, she had the ground and had a good trip from that draw,
doesnt look one to train on as a 4yo but the level of form today was quite good


Orfevre, dissapointing, choose a bad day to run a stinker, didnt travel as as he can and I think he run like a horse that has been overtrainer and is sick,
I have the same feeling of Federer winning 16 slams, is quite good but both are underachiever


Kizuna bad run, didnt enjoy the ground and is not improving in the level I expected


Intello, good run, the pace help him but they can regret not to have choosen the Champion st
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Did you think Soumillion was caught napping before coming into the straight? Treve would have won regardless, but Jarnet's move around the outside seemed to me like he had recognised the pace was slow and he needed to be closer. Soumillion didn't react, then Kizuna came up on the outside of Orfevre and he was again forced to sit and wait.

It will be interesting to see how Treve goes from here - any word on definitely staying in training as yet? It didn't seem to be in question immediately after the race as they were talking about Frankie getting to ride her next year.
 
I disagree with that, I think it was Soumillon beginning to have ideas of making an early move that sort of convinced Jarnet to do the same and make Soumillon wait.
 
sunybay said:
Orfevre, dissapointing, choose a bad day to run a stinker,
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Did he run a stinker? He ran to 126 on RPRs which is the same as last year. I think he ran to form but might be capable of a shade better when conditions are in his favour.

I think Kizuna and Intello are exciting horses with the former needing quick ground to post his best performances and the latter will probably be better over shorter but can be capable in G1s over 1m4f when he doesn't run into one like yesterday. Wonder if they'd consider the Dubai World Cup for Intello.
 
orferve ran fine. we'd be talking about a gutsy winner of a decent arc who had to battle through a few traffic problems if it wasn't for the outstanding filly flying off into the distance infront of him.
 
I think it is nonsensical to suggest he ran a stinker . That is as good as he is - very good but nowhere near the superstar some people have decided he is .

jinny I felt from that draw ROTW should have been in a better position . Hughes was bound to set a sedate pace on Joshua Tree that was his only chance of getting anywhere near the placings and it is surprising that nobody else made a positive move .

That I think is what marks Treve's performance out as being particularly brilliant. She was parked out wide , didn't settle , made a lot of ground in the false straight , attacked early yet still then ran away from them in the final furlong .
 
I think Al Kazeem should be marked up for his run too - drawn in 18 and off a slow pace he did well to get so close . I imagine they will surely be tempted to give him a chance to recapture his summer glories in the Champion .
 
I'm not sure why there are doubts about treve "training on". There is nothing I can see that suggests otherwise and wasn't it the case that she was just about the most inexperienced hore in the field (intello aside ...without checking). She must surely be ripe for improvement.

Great fillies hold their form season after season don't they? Very easy to imagine a back to back arc
 
Tweet from Timeform

Treve has been given a TF rating of 134 following her Arc triumph yesterday. For information, Zarkava rated 133 post-Arc; Danedream 132.
 
Ardross said:
I think it is nonsensical to suggest he ran a stinker . That is as good as he is - very good but nowhere near the superstar some people have decided he is .
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What is nonsenical is to read the f***** replies You write to my posts when a horse i tipped loses.
 
Ah come on Suny, how did he run a stinker? It's galling when you fancy one big antepost and it gets done but look at the facts.

He's ran a few pounds behind his best performances, all of which were nearly twelve months ago or earlier (Japan Cup 2012, Takarazuka Kinen 2012 & Arima Kinen 2011).

They've said the Arima Kinen this year will be his final race anyway.
 
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I think he has run slightly below form, but that can mostly be explained by the time he spent penned in by Treve going past him and Kizuna keeping him boxed in. At that point, the race had just started to happen - much is being made about Treve getting a rough pasage early on, but it didn't really matter as there was no pace.

At the important point of the race, Jarnet made the decisive move and Orfevre ended up having to sit and wait - it must have cost him at least a length or two. I think Soumillion was mindful of what happened last year and hesitated to go so far from home - Jarnet knew he had a rocket underneath him and had no such hesitation.
 
That I think is what marks Treve's performance out as being particularly brilliant. She was parked out wide , didn't settle , made a lot of ground in the false straight , attacked early yet still then ran away from them in the final furlong .
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All true. Add to this that the right horses were in the places, so the form is surely solid.
 
Having just watched it again - I'd say that Jarnet made a deliberate move forward to keep Orfevre in, followed by a tactical move to get to the leaders in the false straight.

ROTW was close enough to begin with but just wasn't good enough on the day.
 
Orfevre wore a hood in the parade ring that was removed down at the start (I presume) before he raced. He was not declared with any head gear.
Is this allowed in GB/ Ireland anyone ?
Maybe it is okay to do so just I have not seen it before.
 
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