Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe 2013

Euronymous said:
Camelot was beaten in a Group 3 quality St Leger and had nothing left.

Last year's crop hardly won an all aged event all year. I think Pastorious won one in Germany and that was it.

Treve is not trained in Britain.
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Last year's race was poor. You had two high quality older horses in Orfevre and St. Nic and not much going on with 3yos'. So as it should be the older horses came to the fore. 3yo's could have had 15 lbs and would have still failed imo.
 
jinnyj said:
I think it was a phenomenal performance. She sweated up, pulled like a cow, got bumped and lit up for the first part of the race then went on to slaughter the best field we have seen in a long time. And its only the 5th race of her career.
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I think that sums it up. Early on I came to the usual conclusion with a horse pulling a it , that my money had gone but to win despite all that... Some horse this is. It was easy enough but imagine if she had settled?

What price next years arc now? She is likely to only get better
 
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Why would you change something based on an average of thousands of horses, based on the result of one race a year, even if it is a Group 1?

I'm not saying the WFA system is right or wrong, in this instance, but you'd want more evidence of it than simply a top-class filly winning the Arc wouldn't you?
 
The race seems to throw up impressive winners for some reason who don't go on to replicate the form. Marienbard was just as impressive on the day, as was Danedream. Danedream did subsequently win the KG the next season but without hitting the same kind of rating.

I was very taken with the winner. Clearly tanking along from before the straight she put the race to bed early and stayed on well. And, as has been mentioned, despite not having the most straightforward time of it through the race.

Always great to see a scintillating winner of the race rather than a five-way pub brawl.
 
Desert Orchid said:
The race seems to throw up impressive winners for some reason who don't go on to replicate the form. Marienbard was just as impressive on the day, as was Danedream. Danedream did subsequently win the KG the next season but without hitting the same kind of rating.
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Marienbard wasn't even the best horse in the race if memory serves.

An impressive 3yo winner is never gonna reach those heights again because they have been far forward enough in their maturity for a, the WFA to be be a huge help and b, they won't improve enough the next year to counteract the additional weight they have to carry.
 
Desert Orchid said:
The race seems to throw up impressive winners for some reason who don't go on to replicate the form. Marienbard was just as impressive on the day, as was Danedream. Danedream did subsequently win the KG the next season but without hitting the same kind of rating.

I was very taken with the winner. Clearly tanking along from before the straight she put the race to bed early and stayed on well. And, as has been mentioned, despite not having the most straightforward time of it through the race.

Always great to see a scintillating winner of the race rather than a five-way pub brawl.
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Are you thinking of Sakhee? Marienbard only just won if I recall correctly..
 
Euronymous said:
Marienbard wasn't even the best horse in the race if memory serves.

An impressive 3yo winner is never gonna reach those heights again because they have been far forward enough in their maturity for a, the WFA to be be a huge help and b, they won't improve enough the next year to counteract the additional weight they have to carry.
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A horse that had run just four previous times and did not settle is not my idea of mature
 
I have to say I am very surprised that not many people are not realising we saw something very special today.
 
Euronymous said:
Moonlight Cloud horse of the year without question I agree.
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Maybe but apples and oranges but I think we saw an Arc winner which is better than even Dancing Brave in terms of a one off performance. Look at those in behind! It is incredible.
 
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Hamm said:
Indeed but I think we saw an Arc winner which is better than even Dancing Brave in terms of a one off performance. Look at those in behind! It is incredible.
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Whoa there!!

She's the equal of a Danedream or a Zarkava but behind Sakhee, Hellisio, Peintre Celebre, Dalakhani.
 
We all always rate the past better.

Look, as I said, at those in behind and tell me she isn't something else.
 
Not sure do you understand me - Dalakhani was a great horse but not a great Arc winner - he barely beat Mubtaker.
 
That wasn't a great arc surely? This is a better horse than that one for my money

It's near enough impossible at times to judge across generations but today just looked so very dominant and the field was well up to scratch. It's the overall factors and the way they were overcome in such style that will be u forgettable

I do wonder though if he draw is a bit overplayed.
 
Hamm said:
Not sure do you understand me - Dalakhani was a great horse but not a great Arc winner - he barely beat Mubtaker.
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Ground deplorably bad that year.
High Chaparral 5 lengths back with a host of Group 1 winners behind.
All any horse can do on the day is beat the conditions and the opposition.
Any unbeaten horse is nigh impossible rate accurately until it gets beaten.
Criquette Head described Treve as having Three Troikas stamina with Ravinella's speed.
Given the Head family history with fillies from Ivanjica, Three Troikas, Gold River, Ravinella, Ma Biche,Riverqueen, Goldikova, Moonlight Cloud etc we should have taken note.
Note also how relaxed Criquette was pre race giving interviews all weekend without a care in the world told its own story.
Home bred by Alec by Motivator who would be described by sometimes house guest E Dunphy as"a good sire but not a great sire" it further demonstrates Alec's policy of using sires that others may not consider "sexy " enough.
 
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