tiggers1972
Senior Jockey
That's the key here SS doesn't have to run within a stone of his best to win, all the others need career bests to win.
QM Champion Chase betting
- Thread starter Tout Seul
- Start date
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
I really don't get this sudden interest in Dodging Bullets and people thinking he's a budding superstar.
Sprinter Scare cooked his goose in a matter of strides and had him flat to the boards before Barry felt Sprinter Sacre go underneath him.
Barry immediately relaxed his mount as if to say take it easy no need to do anymore before his illness there would have been none of that and Dodging Bullets would not have seen the way he went.
People seem to forget although he was kept on the go at home not once was the button pushed. That never came until Newbury and how hard was it pushed there.
I thought Nicky would have him spot on to win but the way barry rode him and accepted defeat I am more inclined to think they suspected what happen might be the case.
One of our own posters was so annoyed with how easily Barry accepted it he reckoned he should have been puled in.
When I think about it how many times has Nicky Henderson ran horses in December and January just to put the edge on them for Cheltenham. So why not Sprinter Sacre..........he was fit ok ....fit enough to run but 100%? never in a month of Sundays no matter how much I wish he was.
As far as they never come back goes that saying came about when Noah left in the arc. Medicines and technology have improved 10 fold since then.
One minute people are boasting about PN has brought horses back....kauto was finished washed out according to many until he strolled home in the Betfair and went on to win yet another King George Denman ffs 2nd in a Gold Cup and won the Hennessy of 11st12lbs.
Much depends on what's wrong with a horse how old he is. Maybe SS still has a fault in his heart who knows but if he doesn't he showed enough to ensure come march he'll kick Dodging Bullets into the nest county.
I fear SDG much more because he's never had the pleasure and there's no real way of telling how he will compare to SS as there styles of running are very different.
SDG has won everything he has been asked to by doing what he has been asked to do........Knowing how he will react to the kind of pressure SS can apply is an unknown and unknowns are always dangerous. he could cope and he couldn't cope and until they meet we simply don't know.
Sprinter Scare cooked his goose in a matter of strides and had him flat to the boards before Barry felt Sprinter Sacre go underneath him.
Barry immediately relaxed his mount as if to say take it easy no need to do anymore before his illness there would have been none of that and Dodging Bullets would not have seen the way he went.
People seem to forget although he was kept on the go at home not once was the button pushed. That never came until Newbury and how hard was it pushed there.
I thought Nicky would have him spot on to win but the way barry rode him and accepted defeat I am more inclined to think they suspected what happen might be the case.
One of our own posters was so annoyed with how easily Barry accepted it he reckoned he should have been puled in.
When I think about it how many times has Nicky Henderson ran horses in December and January just to put the edge on them for Cheltenham. So why not Sprinter Sacre..........he was fit ok ....fit enough to run but 100%? never in a month of Sundays no matter how much I wish he was.
As far as they never come back goes that saying came about when Noah left in the arc. Medicines and technology have improved 10 fold since then.
One minute people are boasting about PN has brought horses back....kauto was finished washed out according to many until he strolled home in the Betfair and went on to win yet another King George Denman ffs 2nd in a Gold Cup and won the Hennessy of 11st12lbs.
Much depends on what's wrong with a horse how old he is. Maybe SS still has a fault in his heart who knows but if he doesn't he showed enough to ensure come march he'll kick Dodging Bullets into the nest county.
I fear SDG much more because he's never had the pleasure and there's no real way of telling how he will compare to SS as there styles of running are very different.
SDG has won everything he has been asked to by doing what he has been asked to do........Knowing how he will react to the kind of pressure SS can apply is an unknown and unknowns are always dangerous. he could cope and he couldn't cope and until they meet we simply don't know.
EC1
On a break
never said DB was a superstar..he's not a mug though Tanlic
As far as they never come back goes that saying came about when Noah left in the arc. Medicines and technology have improved 10 fold since then.
Nicky the needle should know
But i agree. I think the "never come back" is a bit dated now. I suppose i do agree with simon holt in the weekender is so far that very large rangy horses do seem to be extra fragile and that as much as anything could sow the doubts. I am hugely impressed with the way PN has improved and improved DB but if SDG shows his form ( and I sense that hes going to) then he is the winner for me.
Nicky the needle should know
But i agree. I think the "never come back" is a bit dated now. I suppose i do agree with simon holt in the weekender is so far that very large rangy horses do seem to be extra fragile and that as much as anything could sow the doubts. I am hugely impressed with the way PN has improved and improved DB but if SDG shows his form ( and I sense that hes going to) then he is the winner for me.
EC1
On a break
is it dated?...name me a few that have come back better or equal to than when they were in their pomp
one thing i do know about the CC..recent form is key...and only one has it to the level required
one thing i do know about the CC..recent form is key...and only one has it to the level required
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Tanlic
Senior Jockey
I think Noel Meade would agree with you Clive........Monksland just ran a terrific race in a Grade 2 Hurdle and he was off the track for 2 long years,
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
They never come back from tendon injuries, is probably more accurate.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
BTW EC1 there are not just a few horses who come back after long lay offs. They may not be superstars but there are literally hundreds of horses who recover from injury and come back in great form.
Hardly a week goes past that you don't hear it in commentary.........amazing come back after two years of the track or whatever.
They just don't hit the headlines like the Denman's do
Hardly a week goes past that you don't hear it in commentary.........amazing come back after two years of the track or whatever.
They just don't hit the headlines like the Denman's do
EC1
On a break
i'm talking about really special horses..those that have more edge than the rest..and they lose that edge..that something special
a horse like SS could run 170's...and thats now his best basically
you are guessing that he will get back to 190+ performance...thats something that only a very fit special horse can achieve..whereas post injury..you are patching a horse up to just mere mortal levels at best..in the main
i hope i am wrong.. just keep ignoring DB whilst he wins all the prizes though..points on the table whilst others just have the games in hand...no £ for actually winning
a horse like SS could run 170's...and thats now his best basically
you are guessing that he will get back to 190+ performance...thats something that only a very fit special horse can achieve..whereas post injury..you are patching a horse up to just mere mortal levels at best..in the main
i hope i am wrong.. just keep ignoring DB whilst he wins all the prizes though..points on the table whilst others just have the games in hand...no £ for actually winning
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Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Apparently, so I have read, the reason for that isn't the actual injury Grassy it's lack of mobility for long periods of time.
SS was never in that situation he had a break and has been kept on the go for months but without anything too stressful.
He has a great chance of full recovery if he stands up to normal training which he will now have..........sorta make or break as nasty as it sounds
SS was never in that situation he had a break and has been kept on the go for months but without anything too stressful.
He has a great chance of full recovery if he stands up to normal training which he will now have..........sorta make or break as nasty as it sounds
EC1
On a break
monksland was never a SS though
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Immaterial really, Tanlic.
The point is that they don't come back anywhere close to their previous best, following a tendon injury. My beloved Remittance Man did win his comeback in the Emblem Chase after such an injury, but his return was short-lived, and he was never the same horse after his return.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Your wish is granted EC1.......you're wrong :lol:
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Tanlic
Senior Jockey
What do you mean your beloved Remittance Man? He was my beloved Remittance man you cheeky bastid :lol:
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
I don't see either of you imposters using a picture of the great horse as your avatar.
Possession is 9/10ths, so you can both fu*ck off. :lol:
Possession is 9/10ths, so you can both fu*ck off. :lol:
EC1
On a break
lots of 75 handicappers do to..but they ain't got much to have to "bring back" to get to their previous level have they? Even Well Chief didn't have to "bring back" what SS will have to do to reach the lofty heights we are used to from him
If DB hadn't run the other day..most people would say SS has brought back his best..but in reality even though winning..he wouldn't have would he?
yes you can pull odd ones out...but could you list every comeback horse in the last 20 years and give me an average of the level they then produced compared with their previous best..if you can't..then cherry picking odd few means little statistically does it tbh?
if you believe he will get him back..then you have the ideal situation to cash in big time i would think..dip yer bread i say
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Have to say ec I don't get that logic at all. It's almost like saying a third division footballer should find it easier to return after a cruciate than a premiership player but either way both ss and the 75 horse are just trying to get back to the limit of their ability.
also if db hadn't been in the race, surely we would still see what we saw, which wasnt ss at his best?
but I am with you in not underestimating db and on a side but related issue agree about the "once a year" "spring horse" stuff being overplayed. Much rather see a horse performing and improving and putting in genuine races. Sdg is a perfect example of why a good horse should and can perform to a decent level all season. There's too much cotton wool (poor training?) these days
also if db hadn't been in the race, surely we would still see what we saw, which wasnt ss at his best?
but I am with you in not underestimating db and on a side but related issue agree about the "once a year" "spring horse" stuff being overplayed. Much rather see a horse performing and improving and putting in genuine races. Sdg is a perfect example of why a good horse should and can perform to a decent level all season. There's too much cotton wool (poor training?) these days
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Just off the blower and he thanked me for my input. Said he wouldn't have known what to do otherwise to which I replied that I perfectly understand. He has a bit to learn.
Said he always reads my stuff but can't abide some poster called lawnmower or something
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EC1
On a break
and lots that didn't Hamm..which people forget..big bucks...denman
like i said...as you are so convinced he will get it back..lump on him
i hope does for the spectacle alone
like i said...as you are so convinced he will get it back..lump on him
i hope does for the spectacle alone
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