Mister Baileys is another.
Road to the 2000 Guineas
- Thread starter Colin Phillips
- Start date
Mister Baileys is another.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
The issue for me is that yesterday was the pinnacle of our sport, Scottish football and club Rugby are not the pinnacle of those two.
scratch golfer
At the Start
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2010
- Messages
- 118
its purely a numbers game,
there are more people interested in formula 1, scottish football and rugby than horse racing.
altho i dont see what you gain from knocking other sports.
there are plenty of football & formula 1 folk who demean horse racing due to the same ignorance.
as an aside, henry cecil in his prime wouldnt let frankel anywhere near the derby after that run.
but seeing as he is in the twilight ?? who knows.
he would be a massive lay for me, after the speed he shows at HQ
there are more people interested in formula 1, scottish football and rugby than horse racing.
altho i dont see what you gain from knocking other sports.
there are plenty of football & formula 1 folk who demean horse racing due to the same ignorance.
as an aside, henry cecil in his prime wouldnt let frankel anywhere near the derby after that run.
but seeing as he is in the twilight ?? who knows.
he would be a massive lay for me, after the speed he shows at HQ
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Sorry that is wrong. And I'm talking club Rugby Union, not the sort as a whole.
On The Bridle
At the Start
In Ireland Frankels win was the second item on the main evening news sports section - showed most of the race and Nina & Paul Carberry and Katie & Ruby Walsh were the featured guests on the evening's talk show.
That would be my vote also. The Dante is pencilled in as a fact-finding mission, but is unnecessary in my opinion.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
And was found hopelessly wanting.
Frankel is far more like a Barathea than he is a Sea the Stars. If they want to check out his stamina mop up the mile races and go for the Arc. It's a more important race than the Derby, it won't be run on ground as fast, and the race has a history of mile and a quarter animals winning it.
Nonsense... for breeding purposes the Derby is about as good as you can get Euro and should not be underestimated.
Colin Phillips
At the Start
I think Frankel had a 'harder' race than he needed to have but we wouldn't have had such a spectacle then.
I don't think he was anywhere near 'bottomed'.
I don't think he was anywhere near 'bottomed'.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
I'm not underestimating the race, but the Arc is more important globally these days and usually has a better winner.
I think Frankel had a 'harder' race than he needed to have but we wouldn't have had such a spectacle then.
I don't think he was anywhere near 'bottomed'.
I agree with this. But I wouldn't want to see them running hime wire-to-wire like this every time he appeared. It's worked to spectacular effect in the Guineas, but we don't want to kill him.
Connections of any 3-y-o want the Derby above anything else. It is the ultimate test of a thoroughbred against other 3-y-os in there classic season.
The Arc is of course the best of Europe's all-age middle-distance races (although on a global basis the big mile and 10 furlong races are just as imortant, if not more so, for breeding purposes, rightly or wrongly, due to fashion dictated by the US - they are more interested in BC Mile winners than Arc winners). But it is a bit silly to say that the Derby is not as important. It is the most important for those in their classic season, which for breeding purposes counts above anything.
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"My plan was basically to ignore the field, actually" - surely has to go into the pantheon of best trainer quotes ever? Henry Cecil responding to Matt Chapman's inquiry a few minutes ago as to what the plan had been on how to run FRANKEL.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Under normal circumstances I would agree with you, but Frankel would have more chance in the Arc for me. Another race on firm ground on that track could undo the horse.
After demoltions of Daylami in the Irish Champiom, Royal anthem in the York race, Hawk Wing in the Lockinge, Overdose in the italian race and many others, you have to be cautious in his next race.
what the horse deserves is a break, the St James woul be ideal race, if they want to try a distance, the International at York and the new Queen elizabeth could be a campaign, bu I would prefer to bypass York and go to the Jacques Le marois to face the mighty Goldikova.
what the horse deserves is a break, the St James woul be ideal race, if they want to try a distance, the International at York and the new Queen elizabeth could be a campaign, bu I would prefer to bypass York and go to the Jacques Le marois to face the mighty Goldikova.
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Cecil, just interviewed on RUK, more or less told punters not to back the horse for the Derby.
Thinks that Frankel will be kept to a mile until later in the season when he might then be tried over ten.
Thinks that Frankel will be kept to a mile until later in the season when he might then be tried over ten.
I must say I have very little interest in the flat and really struggle to be fond of any horse that's only around for a few years compared to the national hunt horses that seem to be around forever. But I must say, the last few years have seen some tremendous performances. Sea The Stars, Goldikova, Harbinger, Zarkava and now Frankel. And there have been more, but these are just highlights.
Frankel is incredible. I always thought last year that he had incredible speed and accelerates to win races but then just keeps going. Whereas I always thought Sea The Stars could quicken and then quicken again. After yesterday, I must say I underestimated Frankel's stamina. If he was going to stop, yesterday was the day. He strides out so well and stays well.
Where will he goes next? Does that not depend on World Domination? If he's going to be a Derby horse, why would you run Frankel in it? If he were mine, I'd think about the Irish Guineas, then St James Palace. Or just miss Irish race altogether and go straight to Ascot. Then figure out where you go. I don't see the need to up him or drop him in trip. Unlike the filly that won the 1,000 Guineas who is an Oaks horse who is quick enough to win a Guineas, but Frankel is not a Derby horse to start with. Sure he could end up winning it, but you just think that if it ain't broken, why fix it. He should not be beaten by his own generation over a mile and it should be some race when Canford, Goldikova and Frankel show up!!
Frankel is incredible. I always thought last year that he had incredible speed and accelerates to win races but then just keeps going. Whereas I always thought Sea The Stars could quicken and then quicken again. After yesterday, I must say I underestimated Frankel's stamina. If he was going to stop, yesterday was the day. He strides out so well and stays well.
Where will he goes next? Does that not depend on World Domination? If he's going to be a Derby horse, why would you run Frankel in it? If he were mine, I'd think about the Irish Guineas, then St James Palace. Or just miss Irish race altogether and go straight to Ascot. Then figure out where you go. I don't see the need to up him or drop him in trip. Unlike the filly that won the 1,000 Guineas who is an Oaks horse who is quick enough to win a Guineas, but Frankel is not a Derby horse to start with. Sure he could end up winning it, but you just think that if it ain't broken, why fix it. He should not be beaten by his own generation over a mile and it should be some race when Canford, Goldikova and Frankel show up!!
What trip and ground? If you took it as a mile on good ground, I think there wouldn't be much between them on the odds front with goldikova shading it ahead of the other two.
Wrong...
Well, I was wrong, spectacularly, completely and utterly wrong. :lol:
FRANKEL completely wrongfooted me on every count though as Krizon and others have pointed out, how effective such a superbly-striding horse would be on the switchback cambers of a firm Epsom track remains to be seen.
I can see the arguments on both sides re: a Derby run. I suppose he has only one shot at a Derby while he could have more than one attempt at a King George, Arc or Breeders Cup. I don't quite see the point of the Dante either and clearly the Irish 2000 Guineas isn't considered worth it.
So, it looks like the St James's Palace next but that doesn't rule out the Juddmonte or the Irish Champion if connections think ten furlongs is within his compass. I suppose another option would be to go straight to the Eclipse and take on WORKFORCE, SO YOU THINK et al.
Well, I was wrong, spectacularly, completely and utterly wrong. :lol:
FRANKEL completely wrongfooted me on every count though as Krizon and others have pointed out, how effective such a superbly-striding horse would be on the switchback cambers of a firm Epsom track remains to be seen.
I can see the arguments on both sides re: a Derby run. I suppose he has only one shot at a Derby while he could have more than one attempt at a King George, Arc or Breeders Cup. I don't quite see the point of the Dante either and clearly the Irish 2000 Guineas isn't considered worth it.
So, it looks like the St James's Palace next but that doesn't rule out the Juddmonte or the Irish Champion if connections think ten furlongs is within his compass. I suppose another option would be to go straight to the Eclipse and take on WORKFORCE, SO YOU THINK et al.
It would have to be a mile. Good, good to firm. I would also go with Goldikova, who I think is as good a horse as I've seen.