Road to the Arc de Triomphe

Racing may think its lucky to have frankie but its even luckier to have jg. Not only the best around but a pitch perfect sportsman.
 
Though he milked it for all he was worth, the 'genius' rode GH exactly as John Gosden advised him, as he had Wm Buick when winning an Arc trial similarly on Duncan 5 years previously. Probably a little fortunate that there was no great early pace either, so he was able to slot in comfortably.
 
Frankel said:
Utter tripe.

She won an Arc on what ground. A Diane on what ground.
Yes the firm made the difference, but clearly acts on good ground.

Regards Frankel and STS - correct.
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So what is your point?! GH was better?! Even connections didn't make any excuses.
 
Euronymous said:
That **** needs to retire, he's frigging my age.
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Apart from the poor ride in itself, anyone else think he might have made a momentous mistake and tracked Free Eagle thinking he was tracking Golden Horn ? Just watched the race again and he's on the heels of Free Eagle right into the straight.
 
Aragorn said:
So what is your point?! GH was better?! Even connections didn't make any excuses.
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Already stated it. Keep up.

Clearly he was better on the day, he won.
Connections gracious yet clearly ran below her best which was stated. That's the point. Yet considering how the race panned out she still ran well.

As a purist it's a shame she couldn't produce her best as history would have been made. Will probably never get the chance to be in this position again.
 
Frankel said:
As a purist it's a shame she couldn't produce her best as history would have been made. Will probably never get the chance to be in this position again.
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Would it? I'm at work so can't look but was the distance back to Flinshire yesterday relative to last year?
 
Euronymous said:
No question. I think he'll end of on around 134. Treve at her best maybe 130
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Is there a website with the official ratings over the years... My mind still defaults to the older system for ratings (which it appears to me were slightly higher) and I stopped paying attention to them for betting purposes years ago and I'm not sure where 134 fits in with previous champions ?
 
Hurricane Run was 134 and Dalakhani the same (HR overrated imo)
Off the top of my head Peintre Celebre and Sakhee were 137 (Sakhee maybe 138)
Zarkava was 132, Dylan Thomas similar although his best run wasn't in the Arc. STS was 140 but ran half a stone behind that in Paris
 
Euronymous said:
Hurricane Run was 134 and Dalakhani the same (HR overrated imo)
Off the top of my head Peintre Celebre and Sakhee were 137 (Sakhee maybe 138)
Zarkava was 132, Dylan Thomas similar although his best run wasn't in the Arc. STS was 140 but ran half a stone behind that in Paris
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Many thanks for that :)

TBH I'm a little surprised by some of those numbers... for which race did Sea the Stars earn a 3 pounds higher rating than Peintre Celebre ?

I used to follow the handicapping religiously and do my own speed ratings, the moment I started focusing on the conditions instead my betting account never looked back :)
 
Eclipse I think, maybe the Irish Champion. I do think 137 is light for PC, he smashed up Pilsudski who was early 130s.
 
Euronymous said:
Would it? I'm at work so can't look but was the distance back to Flinshire yesterday relative to last year?
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You don't think so then? Unlikely chance of it ever happening again.

Yep I imagine this and last year have run to a very similar mark. You can argue marking up GH. Though you weigh up his early journey with getting great possy and allowed his own way.
You can argue last year with Treve having lovely run through with awful prep and race put to bed in matter of strides.

Clearly her 1st Arc would be a much higher mark than this year and last.

All this said I like GH, always have done. Always appeared that he would improve for 12f which he confirmed in Derby.
He's a tough boy because he's been in at 10f which is not what he really wants. Been to plenty of gigs which was my main concern regards yesterday. The ground also potentially though with firm starting to be branded about he clearly entered calculations.
He deserves Hugh credit. Great constitution.

More importantly I wish Treve a ruddy great 'retirement'.
 
when GH won the Derby..the sectional marked up speed figure i got for him..incl wfa was 131..which is one reason i was very keen to bet him over 12f....thats an OHR based rating..not sure what figures you are quoting Euro..are they official or Timeform?

i'll guess his official rating now will be around the low 130's..he is already rated 130..they may even leave it at that level
 
It's fascinating to look back and see how they were rated with hindsight.... and how did Sinndar and Lammtarra fare ??

Anyone know who Treve is planned to be sent to to create little Treve jnr :)
 
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Ajdal said:
It's fascinating to look back and see how they were rated with hindsight.... and how did Sinndar and Lammtarra fare ??

Anyone know who Treve is planned to be sent to to create little Treve jnr :)
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Well I suppose I could fit her in to my busy schedule. :ninja:
 
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Frankel said:
Well I suppose I could fit her in to my busy schedule. :ninja:
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LOL.. Frankel and Treve... What price would it fetch in the sales ring ??

I just watched the Sea the Stars Eclipse again... he was a wonderful horse... but surely that couldn't be the performance he was rated 140 for... that would be madness ??
 
EC1 said:
when GH won the Derby..the sectional marked up speed figure i got for him..incl wfa was 131..which is one reason i was very keen to bet him over 12f....thats an OHR based rating..not sure what figures you are quoting Euro..are they official or Timeform?
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Timform but i'm hazarding the marks as I have no access to my annuals at work.
 
Treve ran 11lbs below last years performance according to RPR. GH ran a 127 yesterday (which fits in nicely with all the other principals).
Workforce ran a 131 when winning his Arc; STS 132.
 
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Ajdal said:
LOL.. Frankel and Treve... What price would it fetch in the sales ring ??

I just watched the Sea the Stars Eclipse again... he was a wonderful horse... but surely that couldn't be the performance he was rated 140 for... that would be madness ??
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Deep pockets required.

Timeform had it as 133 I think.
 
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i think those are TF's Euro..they always seem just that bit higher than the official ones..5 or 6lb higher?

i'm happy that GH has run to what i thought he could at 12f..more than happy..many people have tried to crab him....a good solid 130 type is GH..he wasn't all out yesterday and he wasn't in the Derby

love the horse

now Frankel..he was a different kettle of fish:cool:

thats the problem when you see a monster like Frankel..any horse that runs within 10 years of him is pooh poohed because he is short of that level..before Frankel..130 was reverred..strange how mindsets are changed by a large one...its similar over the sticks..you get a really good 180 type..and its ..oh not as good as KS or Arkle etc. I just enjoy good horses..some people are unable to ..shame really..special hoss is GH
 
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Yep TF are generally higher.
Frankel is 147 as to 140 BHA.
STS was 140 as to 136 I think.
 
i work off the official ones..find them probably a tad conservative but pretty well judged. I personally think if you time rate using OHR's it wasn't hard to give Frankel a 145 if using sectional mark ups..he really was that good imo

we get spoiled though i think when we have a period like we have had..Kingman..STS..Frankel..these are really exceptional hosses..Frankel the most exceptionsl..they aren't a norm of any kind...early 130's is a bloody good rating when you consider an average G1 rating is probably about 120-125 area
 
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