Road to the Arc de Triomphe

Always the same Ricko, it's in the middle of the track the 5f chute. Missus picked the winner!
 
Hugely enjoyable race, the winner is the best Derby winner I've seen since Sea The Stars and this years Arc was a better field than Sea The Stars Arc IMO; but a little bit of me is still disappointed that Treve couldn't do it.

marble said:
That's the most enjoyable Arc I think I've seen.
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My personal choice is that I always felt Dancing Braves Arc was the best spectacle and Peintre Celebre the best winner I ever saw (Sea Bird was just a little before my time :)
 
If Found had had a decent position, she would have been bang there.

Really is a great ride on the winner. Pretty much had it his own way when getting his position.
 
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Just don't see GH as a great horse. Maybe bcos the Derby is just another gp race now., thought GH has assured this yr. Agree, jockey had it his own way, today. Shame about Treve, seems like jockey was looking after her, probably didn't let herself down.
 
Harsh on GH, take out the York run and he's been immense. He's no STS but an absolute top notch middle distance champion.
 
He's actually beaten better horses today than Sea The Star's beat in his Arc.
I think Sea The Stars beat Youmzain and Cavalyman, whereas the horses directly behind Golden Horn today are a much higher calibre.
On ratings they're probably about the same but visually I personally prefer Golden Horn as a specimen over Sea The Stars, I just love how straightforward he is. They actually have the same sire Cape Cross which is interesting.
He's done to group one flat horses what Faugheen has been doing to his opponents over jumps, imo.
Basically Golden Horn makes something very exceptional look very easy, as he did when running on his own for two furlongs today before cutting over to get with the rest.
A truly gifted horse.
Whether he deserves to be called 'great' or not doesn't really matter, imo.
 
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He's not that far off STS, up there with the other v. good 3yo's, not up there with the true greats who proved they could give weight away as 4yo's.
 
tiggers1972 said:
Agree Aragon, everyone eulogising about Treve and he smashed her.
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Let's not be silly. Flintshire might just give you a clue.
From a poor draw he's been able to grab a great position. The pace has allowed him to just fill up his horse then kick. Was always going to be tough to make ground up. Flintshire and New Bay were right behind him, finished 2nd and 3rd.
Treve didn't break well, found herself near the back, then hung out wide and a fair way back. She has actually done well to make ground up and finish 2/3 lengths off. Clearly below her best but actually when analysing the race deserves marking up. Found too deserves marking up.
Look GH is a very good horse. The ground came in his favour. Given a good ride and allowed his own way to a point.

But yes at her best she smashes him. That's pretty clear.
 
No its not. Thats total rubbish.

Given their ideal conditions they would probably beat each other I would agree but we'll never know. GH had his conditions today and beat her, hands down, no arguments. On the day he was by far the best. She didn't have her conditions but there is no way you could say she didn't come into the race in form, she had a pacemaker to get the right pace, she ran pretty much the same race in terms of positioning as the last two years but got beat. She's clearly not run to the same level as last year but it was conditions, not whether she was at her best.

Great horses like Frankel and STS won whatever the weather. That will always hang over Treve. She's a great horse, no doubt, but she's great round long champ on soft ground.
 
Utter tripe.

She won an Arc on what ground. A Diane on what ground.
Yes the firm made the difference, but clearly acts on good ground.

Regards Frankel and STS - correct.
 
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It's interesting that Frankie says that GH is "probably the best horse I've ridden", though that might be 'just after the race adrenaline' and I'm not completely convinced... Dubai Millenium was a pretty tasty beast as well.

Comparisons is such a hard game to play, the problem with doing it with horse racing is that often the horses get one chance against a rival to state their case... and more often then not it's the conditions that is the decisive factor (be it going, pace, distance, draw or how worked up they are on the day).. Both Treve and Golden Horn are exceptional and in my mind both could be capable of turning over the other on the day, just as both could have beaten Sea the Stars on a good day and vice versa. All of them were great champions in my eyes and all were a joy to watch :)
 
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Ajdal said:
It's interesting that Frankie says that GH is "probably the best horse I've ridden", though that might be 'just after the race adrenaline' and I'm not completely convinced... Dubai Millenium was a pretty tasty beast as well.

Comparisons is such a hard game to play, the problem with doing it with horse racing is that often the horses get one chance against a rival to state their case... and more often then not it's the conditions that is the decisive factor (be it going, pace, distance, draw or how worked up they are on the day).. Both Treve and Golden Horn are exceptional and in my mind both could be capable of turning over the other on the day, just as both could have beaten Sea the Stars on a good day and vice versa. All are great champions in my eyes.
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Conditions a factor for sure. The drying weather clearly helped the winner. Though would GH have even turned up on soft.

Emm will have to politely disagree about him GH turning over STS. Treve on soft would most certainly have made him go.
 
Frankel said:
Emm will have to politely disagree about him GH turning over STS. Treve on soft would most certainly have made him go.
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We will have to agree to disagree on that one.... Sea The Stars was a super champion, but he was champion in a quite a poor year... If he raced against Golden Horn 10 times I'd lay the bet that says he would win every single time :)
 
Ajdal said:
We will have to agree to disagree on that one.... Sea The Stars was a super champion, but he was champion in a quite a poor year... If he raced against Golden Horn 10 times I'd lay the bet that says he would win every single time :)
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He was indeed exceptional. Love his Eclipse and Arc.

Ok 9-1 then. That was on debut by the way. :D
 
Treve hung again today across the track. In fact I am surprised she wasn't dq'ed as she was responsible to almost bringing Dolniya down.
In my opinion she has always had physical problems and having that in mind I truly respect her achievements.
 
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Frankel said:
He was indeed exceptional. Love his Eclipse and Arc.

Ok 9-1 then. That was on debut by the way. :D
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lol... nothing like a bias fan :D

I think if you put up 9/1 Golden Horn in a 2 horse race with Sea The Stars on betfair if wouldn't last very long ;)

It is a fun game to play though... rather than ask the question who is the best, ask the question: If you were a bookie, how would you price up the field if every Arc winner from Dancing Brave to Golden Horn lined up for a race; it's a tough one... :confused:
 
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Golden Horn has to be considered as one of the greats after that win combined with his season's tally.
This is a horse that had to be supplemented for The Derby as his owner/breeder was convinced he had a 10 furlong pedigree.
He danced nearly every dance and York was down to pilot error as well as sticky ground.
He had tough races in York, Leopardstown and Longchamp yet came up trumps, doing his own donkey work at leopardstown and having a sightseeing tour of Paris.
Full credit to all concerned for keeping him fresh and competitive for so long.
Treve was not going to reach a horse that was not stopping and had first run on her, yet she ran a most respectable race as did the other placed horses.
a great race all told.
 
Ajdal said:
It's interesting that Frankie says that GH is "probably the best horse I've ridden"
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Frankie might just allow his judgement to be tainted by his beef against his former employer. who was connected to most of the best horses he'd ridden previously.

Thought I might be alone in thinking Frankie was after the McCririck award for shameless self publicity, until my 11yo granddaughter passed by the TV and asked "Who's that show-off?". :lol:
 
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I think we have been quite spoilt the last couple of years... Kingman, Australia (who I always felt could potentially have put up a great performance), Treve, Golden Horn and Gleneagles (whose starting to remind me of See You Then/When), Taghrooda's King George to name just a few... and yet it is American Pharoah's Belmont that I personally enjoyed the most... it wasn't the best form performance and I certainly don't think he's the best horse I've seen in the last two years... but the triple crown is just one the great achievements in racing, there is something I find magical about it... which is why I still haven't forgiven Encke (RIP) for beating Camelot in the Leger.
 
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When I heard Frankie say this was his Carlsberg horse just after the race my first reaction was what about Lammtarra?

Golden Horn did move into a very exalted category today by winning the Arc after contesting just about every other major race of the season and winning all bar one of them. He has found it tougher at 10f but over 12f he has been irresistible.
 
In the airport in Paris on the way home. The one thought I have from the weekend is Frankie. He was electric after the race and despite Longchamp feeling like Cheltenham when Istabraq pulled up he made it a special moment. Racing is lucky to have him. He is the definition of redemption bar maybe Fergal Lynch.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Gosden has long deserved a win like this. He's a genius and for me the highlight was turning Nick Luck's post-race interview from being all about Frankie to being all about the horse. Genius stuff.
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Absolutely spot on. I though exactly the same. I cannot take to Dettori, but concede that that was one of the best rides I have ever seen in my life. But how he milks it. Give me Ryan Moore anyday.
 
an capall said:
Absolutely spot on. I though exactly the same. I cannot take to Dettori, but concede that that was one of the best rides I have ever seen in my life. But how he milks it. Give me Ryan Moore anyday.
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You struggle to identify yourself with flawed geniuses. I know by the way you look at me.
 
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