Road To The Champion Hurdle

Grasshopper said:
It's a plain nonsense that he should give the race a miss. it makes no sense on any level. :cool:
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Exactly. I can’t think of one decent reason for one of the best three or four 2m hurdlers around missing the most prestigious and valuable 2m hurdle race. It just doesn’t make any sense.

If he’d shown a marked preference for a flat track, or that he doesn’t travel well outside Ireland, then maybe, but he hasn’t (well not that I’m aware of).

Sorry EC1, but you’re talking nonsense on this occasion.
 
I was trying to make the point that it isn't always black and white.
Soccer/football isn't really my thing-I watch maybe 2 matches a year but I always have an arguement with a friend of mine who was semi professional at one time in his life-did David Beckham prostitue himself going to play in America.My arguement was always that your physical abilities are only with you for a relatively short period of time -do you want to look back at the end of a career and think I did my best and got as far as I could or even though I am disgustingly rich I got at extra few quid at the expense of seeing how good I really was.
 
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Grasshopper said:
Jeezus, yer hard work sometimes EC1. :)

What "one race mentality" is at play here? HF has been out three times in under two months, winning all the top-class 2m hurdles in Ireland this season except for the Morgiana. The entirely logical next target for him is Cheltenham, and who knows, he may even take in Aintree before Punchestown (trip well within his compass).

As Gal has said previously, if there is a top-flight hurdler that assuredly doesn't have a "one race" mentality, it's Hurricane Fly. Your arguing everything back to front on this one.

If he's only 2L better than Solwhit, then so be it. But that shouldn't rule him out of participating, which is what you've suggested.
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no - i'm not saying HF is the one race mentality

i'm saying you guys have got a one race mentality..only the CH matters..i like what they have done with HF
 
LUKE said:
I was trying to make the point that it isn't always black and white.
Soccer/football isn't really my thing-I watch maybe 2 matches a year but I always have an arguement with a friend of mine who was semi professional at one time in his life-did David Beckham prostitue himself going to play in America.My arguement was always that your physical abilities are only with you for a relatively short period of time -do you want to look back at the end of a career and think I did my best and got as far as I could or even though I am disgustingly rich I got at extra few quid at the expense of seeing how good I really was.
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thats a good point - you got me with that one

maybe he should run then
 
Luke’s point is a good one in human terms… but the horse presumably doesn’t have a view on it. As far as connections go they would be other than human if they didn’t fancy a crack at the Champion. This doesn’t detract from the fact that EC’s original laid out strategy may be best plan for him at the moment.
 
SteveM said:
Luke’s point is a good one in human terms… but the horse presumably doesn’t have a view on it. As far as connections go they would be other than human if they didn’t fancy a crack at the Champion. This doesn’t detract from the fact that EC’s original laid out strategy may be best plan for him at the moment.
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thanks Steve

winning races ain't a bad strategy really - which is what they are doing with him - whilst others are at home waiting for a day in March

its a good job H Knight doesn't train a few of the contenders for this years CH..I know what names she would be being called:)
 
EC1 said:
i'm saying you guys have got a one race mentality..only the CH matters..i like what they have done with HF
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What evidence is there for you thinking this though?

You've known me long enough via forums that I'm absolutely NOT an advocate of Cheltenham first, everything else. One of my main bug-bears with racing - particularly C4 Racing - is this selling of the Festival as the only target.

Cheltenham is a target. Whilst I would agree that it is the most important target of the season, it is not the only target.

This is the Champion Hurdle thread, and Hurricane Fly is being discussed in that context. But if you look through the Hattons Grace, December Hurdle and Irish Champion Hurdle threads, you won't find any contribution along the lines of "Who cares - it's only Fairyhouse/Leopardstown". These races are discussed fully on their own merits here, and once they are run, it makes sense for the efforts of the respective horses to be discussed with a view to Cheltenham. That's an entirely different thing to having a "one race" mentality.

I wouldn't know, but do 2000 Guineas threads ever turn to thoughts of Epsom post-race? Is the Derby ever reviewed with one eye on the Arc? Is, in fact, the Flat season not ultimately geared around the Arc and Breeders Cup meetings? Cheltenham is viewed in the same way.
 
Grasshopper said:
What evidence is there for you thinking this though?

You've known me long enough via forums that I'm absolutely NOT an advocate of Cheltenham first, everything else. One of my main bug-bears with racing - particularly C4 Racing - is this selling of the Festival as the only target.

Cheltenham is a target. Whilst I would agree that it is the most important target of the season, it is not the only target.

This is the Champion Hurdle thread, and Hurricane Fly is being discussed in that context. But if you look through the Hattons Grace, December Hurdle and Irish Champion Hurdle threads, you won't find any contribution along the lines of "Who cares - it's only Fairyhouse/Leopardstown". These races are discussed fully on their own merits here, and once they are run, it makes sense for the efforts of the respective horses to be discussed with a view to Cheltenham. That's an entirely different thing to having a "one race" mentality.

I wouldn't know, but do 2000 Guineas threads ever turn to thoughts of Epsom post-race? Is the Derby ever reviewed with one eye on the Arc? Is, in fact, the Flat season not ultimately geared around the Arc and Breeders Cup meetings? Cheltenham is viewed in the same way.
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I think the guineas & Derby are viewed as far more important races than the early season "big ones" over the jumps to be fair.

I see Cheltenham get mentioned as soon as the season starts..a horse wins a novice chase/hurdle..quoted straight away for Cheltenham etc.

That doesn't happen on the flat..each race takes prominence as it comes along..I don't see NH viewed in that way..its Cheltenham shaped from November onwards

the flat doesn't have that shape imo
 
EC1 said:
I think the guineas & Derby are viewed as far more important races than the early season "big ones" over the jumps to be fair.

I see Cheltenham get mentioned as soon as the season starts..a horse wins a novice chase/hurdle..quoted straight away for Cheltenham etc.

That doesn't happen on the flat..each race takes prominence as it comes along..I don't see NH viewed in that way..its Cheltenham shaped from November onwards

the flat doesn't have that shape imo
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A juvenile wins the Dewhurst, it gets a quote for the Guineas and the Derby. In what way is this different.

And it's cobblers of the highest order to suggest the 2000 Guineas/Derby are viewed any differently in terms of present-future context, than say the Royal Bond and the Supreme. It's fantasist, Flattie, claptrap, dribbled from the mouths of those who want there to be some sort of 'hole' in Jumps racing, when there isn't one.

As soon as Cheltenham is over, horses are viewed with both Aintree and Punchestowns in mind. Two power-house meetings (less applicable to the latter, but still), and they are anticipated with just as much relish as the Festival. The only difference is that Cheltenham, by dint of it's history and prestige, always draws the very best of runners from both sides of the Irish Sea regardless, making it particularly eagerly anticipated.

Only a sand-dancing, camel-humping, Classic-gobbling mincer could fail to see it this way.:p
 
Grasshopper said:
A juvenile wins the Dewhurst, it gets a quote for the Guineas and the Derby. In what way is this different.

And it's cobblers of the highest order to suggest the 2000 Guineas/Derby are viewed any differently in terms of present-future context, than say the Royal Bond and the Supreme. It's fantasist, Flattie, claptrap, dribbled from the mouths of those who want there to be some sort of 'hole' in Jumps racing, when there isn't one.

As soon as Cheltenham is over, horses are viewed with both Aintree and Punchestowns in mind. Two power-house meetings (less applicable to the latter, but still), and they are anticipated with just as much relish as the Festival. The only difference is that Cheltenham, by dint of it's history and prestige, always draws the very best of runners from both sides of the Irish Sea regardless, making it particularly eagerly anticipated.

Only a sand-dancing, camel-humping, Classic-gobbling mincer could fail to see it this way.:p
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the difference is that the flat has many target meetings...first the guneas..we talk all winter about that..then the Derby..all winter again..then we talk about Ascot..then its the KG..then its York..then its The Arc..some strange bods then talk about the Breeders Cup :)

so its totally different to NH..where there really does seem to be only one target meeting

Only a mud slavering, bunny hopping, slow coach loving, mincer ...won't be able to see this:)
 
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What are the Paddy Power, the Hennessy, the Durkan, the Tingle Creek, the Fighting Fifth, the King George, the December Festival........I could go on, but you get the picture......other than "target meetings" in their own right?

The idea that these meetings don't count or are "not targets" lives only in the minds of those who choose to believe it.
 
granger said:
It must be time for the annual national hunt racing only existing for a week in March chat.

Yawn
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in most people's minds it does - hence the obsession - we must run in the CH etc

Grass..I know about those meetings but they aren't talked about like Cheltenham

look at the threads on this board - tells you everything..Road to the GC..CH...CC..put up in September

these are the indicators that there is only one real target meeting in NH rcing

I don't see any road to the Henessey threads..or Tingle Creeks

so the people you are criticising Granger are those that starts those threads..it is they that make it a one target season

the person pointing it out though gets the sarky comments..odd
 
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The King George thread is still being added to daily. Will there not be a 1000 and 2000 guineas and Derby thread started soon

The Tingle creek had its own thread, the Hennesy thread went many pages deep as did Leopardstown Christmas and Aintree/Punchestwon sure will aswell

Cheltenham is a special week just, it will always garner more attention. The world cup will get more attention than the Asia cup, its the way some things work

I'm sorry but I just don't see the HF argument at all. Why wouldn't Irelands top hurdler not test himself against the best at Cheltenham?
 
granger said:
The King George thread is still being added to daily. Will there not be a 1000 and 2000 guineas and Derby thread started soon

The Tingle creek had its own thread, the Hennesy thread went many pages deep as did Leopardstown Christmas and Aintree/Punchestwon sure will aswell

Cheltenham is a special week just, it will always garner more attention. The world cup will get more attention than the Asia cup, its the way some things work

I'm sorry but I just don't see the HF argument at all. Why wouldn't Irelands top hurdler not test himself against the best at Cheltenham?
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i was talking about the ..road to ..threads Granger..of course big races get threads..its a racing forum..but the road to threads only point to one main festival over the sticks

i'm not crticising it..just highlighting that the NH season is geared mainly to one festival..the flat isn't to the same degree
 
There have been roads to the Lincoln and roads to the kentucky Derby around here too

Cheltenham does get to attention in fairmess but to think that people wanting to see the best hurdler in Ireland run against Britains finest proves that racing revolves solely around a week in March doesn't make good sober reading to me
 
I'm with EC1 on this. Cheltenham is way over hyped - If I owned HF I would definitely skip the CH this year - take the Punchestown race and maybe the French Champion and plan a campaign for next year. It's not the be all and end all to life!!
 
On The Bridle said:
I'm with EC1 on this. Cheltenham is way over hyped - If I owned HF I would definitely skip the CH this year - take the Punchestown race and maybe the French Champion and plan a campaign for next year. It's not the be all and end all to life!!
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Why avoid the champion? He's been trained for it and there is no reason why he won't take it in and the subsequent race at Punchestown
 
granger said:
Why avoid the champion? He's been trained for it and there is no reason why he won't take it in and the subsequent race at Punchestown
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He has had toughest campaign runs wise this year (admittedly low mileage on the clock) and IMO hasn't been campaigned with the CH as his ultimate goal. They are bagging as much prize money as they can as WP Mullins always campaigns his horses to do. Fair play to them! Who are we to argue?:ninja:
 
There are countless examples of horses running at Cheltenham for the sake of it. Top of my list would be the bumper, the supreme novice, and the Fred Winter hurdle. There are horses in those races completely out of their depth by trip, conditions and jumping hurdles rather than fences later in their career. This Hurricane Fly debate is being dragged out to the last and is mind numbingly boring.
 
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