Road To The Champion Hurdle

He is implying that the jockey does not matter the horse will be beat either way, unless I am reading the last 48 pages incorrectly.



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Gearoid said:
He is implying that the jockey does not matter the horse will be beat either way, unless I am reading the last 48 pages incorrectly.



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not exactly

its just that riding arrangements seem very important to a lot of punters and i really don't know why..particularly when many don't know any stats to back up whether x jockey is more proficient than Y jockey

in fact i remember posting some jockey stats on here many moons ago..which brought mainly derision as I remember,,which puzzled me with all the chat about who is riding what etc.

generally i think that unless a jockey has a weakness over a course & distance or on a particular going then i don't really see any relevance as to who rides what

obviously if a jockey can only ride one sort of race then its a bit poor..it reminds me of when a supposed top footballer has apparently got a good or bad left foot...wtf is that about?..no footballer should have a "bad" anything with what they get paid..work on it ffs.

so it were generally just a wonder just exactly why does it matter if Towned rides or not..he's just an average rider from what i've seen..he has good and bad rides like many many riders.
 
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An average rider..... thats very harsh on Paul Townend. He'll soon have the best job in Irish racing and that is no fluke

Why the interest in who rides the third favourite for the champ hurldle? It's a pretty newsworthy story for one and will have alot more say on who wins this years renewal than anything Celestial Halo has done this season
 
granger said:
An average rider..... thats very harsh on Paul Townend. He'll soon have the best job in Irish racing and that is no fluke

Why the interest in who rides the third favourite for the champ hurldle? It's a pretty newsworthy story for one and will have alot more say on who wins this years renewal than anything Celestial Halo has done this season
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thats quite a laughable comment to be honest..best leave that sort of silliness to me..in between backing winners;)
 
Haven't heard it personally but possibly. Ruby prob has around 3 seasons left. Townend could go out on his own now and take the big job whenever it becomes available
 
thats what I call a vias statistic
with the horses Ruby rides a female claimer can win plenty of races in the festival
 
sunybay said:
thats what I call a vias statistic
with the horses Ruby rides a female claimer can win plenty of races in the festival
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so what you are suggesting there is that jockeys don't make any difference at all..basically those wins of Rubys..anyone can win on em

which is sort of the point i made earlier..what difference does it make who rides what?

it isn't necessarily a biased stat ..we don't know what odds those rides of Townend were..you seem to suggest they all had little chance..which maybe they did..might be worth digging in to them a little.
 
I should have mentioned in my earlier post that these figures are from 2008.

Ruby has probably had a lot more rides than that.

Suny the figures were only to point out the difference in experience of riding Cheltenham, which is thought by many to be a difficult course to ride.

Here are Townend's rides (I have to credit this information to the Adrian Massey site) :


10 Mar 2009 2:05 Cheltenham GOLDEN SILVER 14-1 14/17
10 Mar 2009 3:20 Cheltenham EBAZIYAN 50-1 20/23 -200
11 Mar 2009 3:20 Cheltenham SCOTSIRISH 40-1 5/12
11 Mar 2009 4:00 Cheltenham AMBOBO 12-1 20/27
11 Mar 2009 5:15 Cheltenham MEATH ALL STAR 12-1 11/24
12 Mar 2009 2:05 Cheltenham INDIAN PIPE DREAM 66-1 15/22
12 Mar 2009 3:20 Cheltenham SHAKERVILZ 50-1 13/14
12 Mar 2009 4:00 Cheltenham CLARIFIED 17-2 P/23
13 Mar 2009 1:30 Cheltenham ART SLEUTH 66-1 17/18
13 Mar 2009 2:05 Cheltenham SESENTA 20-1 8/27
13 Mar 2009 4:40 Cheltenham HANGOVER 17-2 15/23
12 Dec 2009 2:25 Cheltenham JAYO 20-1 5/17
16 Mar 2010 1:30 Cheltenham FLAT OUT 20-1 5/18
16 Mar 2010 2:05 Cheltenham QUISCOVER FONTAINE 22-1 6/12
17 Mar 2010 3:20 Cheltenham GOLDEN SILVER 33-1 6/9
17 Mar 2010 4:00 Cheltenham HAMPSHIRE EXPRESS 16-1 F/28
17 Mar 2010 4:40 Cheltenham DOCTOR DEEJAY 25-1 10/24
17 Mar 2010 5:15 Cheltenham BISHOPSFURZE 20-1 7/24
18 Mar 2010 1:30 Cheltenham THE MIDNIGHT CLUB 16-1 3/20
18 Mar 2010 2:40 Cheltenham SCOTSIRISH 20-1 6/13
18 Mar 2010 3:20 Cheltenham COUSIN VINNY 25-1 8/14
18 Mar 2010 4:00 Cheltenham JAYO 16-1 11/24
19 Mar 2010 2:05 Cheltenham TAWAAGG 12-1 24/28
19 Mar 2010 2:40 Cheltenham ENTERPRISE PARK 11-1 P/19
19 Mar 2010 3:20 Cheltenham COOLDINE 10-1 5/11
12 Nov 2010 1:50 Cheltenham BALLYADAM BROOK 11-1 3/7
 
Those are meaningless IMHO .. sample size much too small and not a single runner in single figures.
 
those are interesting all the same Colin thanks

yes its a small sample..and most are double figures..but he has only ridden one of those into a place..other one were a field of 7

1 placing is a bit low..even allowing for the prices..a fair expectation would be about 5 placings from those - points to the him underperforming at Cheltenham

when looking at places..you don't need a massive sample to form a view imo
 
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the top 100 jockeys would win in the Festival riding Big Backs, Quevegas, Denmans etc


Ruby was a very good jockey, still is a good one but Townned is not the future , is the present and when he rides those horses will win at least as much as Ruby if not more.


Also with Hurricane , the horse goes very well for him, so why change.


The question is how long Townned will wait to be n1 in Mullins stable, if the later wnats to retain him he should offfer him to be stable n1 for next season.
 
sunybay said:
the top 100 jockeys would win in the Festival riding Big Backs, Quevegas, Denmans etc


Ruby was a very good jockey, still is a good one but Townned is not the future , is the present and when he rides those horses will win at least as much as Ruby if not more.


Also with Hurricane , the horse goes very well for him, so why change.


The question is how long Townned will wait to be n1 in Mullins stable, if the later wnats to retain him he should offfer him to be stable n1 for next season.
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i just think the whole jock thing is overrated Suny..and in effect you have said the same..again you say the top 100 jocks would win on those horses..so on a scale of importance..the jockey aspect must be less than 1% variance re the top 100 jocks..well lets say top 30
 
granger said:
Rather simplistic Hamm. Thats like saying Michael Schumacher can't make my car go any faster than I can
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Of course it is, I was being flippant. I don't think Townend is the second coming like others but trying to knock him when he hasn't had a decent ride at Cheltenham yet is far from fair.
 
Hamm said:
Of course it is, I was being flippant. I don't think Townend is the second coming like others but trying to knock him when he hasn't had a decent ride at Cheltenham yet is far from fair.
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why do you need a decent ride?

out of those runs the % call is he should have placed 4 times..he did 1..so its not cut and dried..but he is under par.....you don't have to ride short priced horses to prove anything.
 
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