Road to the Epsom Derby 2011

I'm really glad i don't read Hamm's posts anymore...

but i'll bet his previous post is a particularly nasty dig at me

:lol:

i've forgot more than you appear to know Hammster man;)
 
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anyway

back to the proper discussion

Does anyone here think that CH is value at 6/4?

or is 5/2 value?

or is he really about a 10/1 shot
 
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I would think about 7/2 or 4/1 based on the little we know about him. It is a reflection on the other contenders that we are focusing on laying the favourite rather than picking out the winner....

Which is Recital :lol:
 
In a decent quality Derby I would have thought 10/1 was a bit short but this year the field looks poor and unless the French horse is a bit special it's going to be anyone's race.

The 6/4 was terrible value in my opinion.
 
It's a travesty Frankel isn't running as far as I'm concerned. What price would he be against this field?
 
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Same comments every year, this years crop is no good etc etc. :rolleyes:
Most of these have never been properly tried and Saturday will be the first time they will be 100% and asked for the maximum effort . Why not just wait and see the race before coming to the same old false conclusions.

I can't wait to see Frankel over 1M4 so we can put that to bed too. Reminds me of Teofilo going to win the Guineas, Derby and Leger a few years back when the dogs on the street knew he was lame.
 
Sheikh said:
Same comments every year, this years crop is no good etc etc. :rolleyes:
Most of these have never been properly tried and Saturday will be the first time they will be 100% and asked for the maximum effort . Why not just wait and see the race before coming to the same old false conclusions.
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Spot on. Who knew how great Generous was going to be until he was tried over the trip. The leading contenders all have the scope to improve bundles on Saturday and I think it's a fascinating race.
 
Aragorn said:
Bold statement EC - If he stays he will go mighty close.

I don't think he will but I wouldn't say it's a definite. I wouldn't be laying him i have to say.
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I think it's more certain Frankel would have won this than it is that the sun will come up tomorrow.:(
 
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SteveM said:
I think it's more certain Frankel would have won this than it is that the sun will come up tomorrow.:(
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I'm not sure he would stay either but as i'm holding an antepost ticket at a 3 figure price for Pour Moi i'm glad he's not running!!! :D
 
...fair enough.:lol: An excellent reason for not wanting to see a horse of a lifetime fulfil his destiny and join the immortals.;)
 
Thanks, Steve.

Would I be right in thinking that nowadays there are more Derby candidates with the right breeding for it than there used to be say fifteen years ago? It's only a subjective impression, but I seem to remember it being possible to rule out most of the field on the grounds that they wouldn't get the trip.
 
Grey said:
Thanks, Steve.

Would I be right in thinking that nowadays there are more Derby candidates with the right breeding for it than there used to be say fifteen years ago? It's only a subjective impression, but I seem to remember it being possible to rule out most of the field on the grounds that they wouldn't get the trip.
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It's a fair point you make Grey. The dominance of Sadler’s Wells (who hilariously enough was not universally considered the right sort of sire for the Derby at one time) and his sons Montjeu and Galileo (despite not being chefs-de-race themselves) together with newer European chefs-de-race close up in the pedigree have helped to shift the relative requirement more toward stamina in terms of Dosage numbers, but also in the type of colt that is being put into the race. Most years these days more than half the field are by sons of Sadler's Wells.

I remember them trying to force Storm Cats into the Derby at one point. They don't seem to be doing that now.
 
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The Guineas was regarded as a more important race to win from a breeding perspective to mirror the US for a period and so naturally enough the best mares where getting covered by milers. The Derby was not the main target for the resulting top milers. That has been corrected.
 
Sheikh said:
Same comments every year, this years crop is no good etc etc. :rolleyes:
Most of these have never been properly tried and Saturday will be the first time they will be 100% and asked for the maximum effort . Why not just wait and see the race before coming to the same old false conclusions.

I can't wait to see Frankel over 1M4 so we can put that to bed too. Reminds me of Teofilo going to win the Guineas, Derby and Leger a few years back when the dogs on the street knew he was lame.
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your first paragraph describes why its not as good as STS versus FAG...so its not as good as previous years..correct

your 2nd paragraph makes no sense to me whatsover..and if i made it some hamster would be on biting me legs like the limpit he is

you are saying in one breath..oooh we might have a real superstar due to the unknown..but in your second breath are quite adamant Frankel would bomb at 12f..which is the same unknown..which means to me you have a negative slant against Frankel...but ...not all these unknown superstars about to appear Saturday

i hope it does throw up a good un..but signs are it won't

and in previous years I have never said..oooh its a poor year..in fact i usually go the other way
 
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I think this edition is a good one but probably there will not be a superstar like Sea The Stars, Sinndar or Galileo.

I think older horses will dominate the season,


Of the classics in next 10 days, the race I most want to see is the Diane with Galikova, Golden Lilac, Andromeda Galaxy and Shareta
 
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