Royal Ascot

EC1 said:
but in a crawl..the horse at the front is favoured...we aren't talking about a horse laden with masses of stamina and no speed in NOT..speedy horses win 2000g...yes he may win at 10f...but he's a guineas winner thats just been run past like he had no gears at all....after having had the run of the race
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I agree with off the front but when you've been hammered in Greenham off a slow pace and won a guiness by out staying IMO why try and turn it into a sprint. They had Toormore in as well who could have made a good pace as he did in the Craven
 
Not having that was Canford Cliffs a better miler than Makfi.

Makfi just despised Ascot and his battering of Goldikova proved he was top class.
 
Gamla Stan said:
You do realise Kingman went the same side as Night of Thunder right?

Love to see the rematch at Deauville with some pacemakers myself.
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oh no i never realised that..was that that big race at Newmarket was it?:whistle:

the point is that for some reason..Kingman did not show his best that day...he has on every other run

you NOT supporters cling on to that as though its set in stone.

just to admit you got it wrong....and move on
 
I have no problem admitting I was wrong (still maintain 3/1 was value regardless of result) but the race was run completely differently to Newmarket and played more to Kingman's strengths today. As I said, I'd love to see a rematch in the Marois myself with a couple of batshit French pacemakers.
 
Kauto said:
I agree with off the front but when you've been hammered in Greenham off a slow pace and won a guiness by out staying IMO why try and turn it into a sprint. They had Toormore in as well who could have made a good pace as he did in the Craven
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the greeham cannot have been a slow pace..because the final time was immense..if it was a slow pace that makes Kingman not far off Frankel to be able to run a quick time like that off a slow pace
 
Lovely performance from Kingman.

I said I felt he was better than the Guineas (but so was NOT) and had a 130+ performance in the locker.
 
Gamla Stan said:
I have no problem admitting I was wrong (still maintain 3/1 was value regardless of result) but the race was run completely differently to Newmarket and played more to Kingman's strengths today. As I said, I'd love to see a rematch in the Marois myself with a couple of batshit French pacemakers.
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but you don't know for sure what Kingman's strengths are GS..you are judging the horse on one run...he won in a fast time at Newbury...so he can't be afraid of going even pace can he?....that 7f is a true test at Newbury and is not for short mile runners

you are seeming to want a pace breakdown so a plodder can beat him...but NOT is not that plodder..he won a guineas
 
we could talk about this all day...and still get no further:)...i respect your confidence beforehand anywy GS...no sitting on the fence like many do

anyway i'm backing Suraj in the next
 
Night of thunder ok ride
Just beaten by a better horse.

About past guineas
Makfi was better than canford cliffs and
Henry was better tha raven pass in my book.
 
Very impressive, but he was always going to waltz in on fast ground and off a steady pace.
The fact remains that was beaten the only time he's run 1m at a good clip, and his trainer talking aiming at Deauville and Goodwood hardly dispels the suspicion regarding his lack of stamina.
 
Gamla Stan said:
I have no problem admitting I was wrong (still maintain 3/1 was value regardless of result) but the race was run completely differently to Newmarket and played more to Kingman's strengths today. As I said, I'd love to see a rematch in the Marois myself with a couple of batshit French pacemakers.
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Me too but I suspect Kingman would still win . What price Sheikh Joann does just that with a pacemaker Toronado in the Sussex though and really makes it a no place to hide race ?

The one thing today is that the draw probably stopped N of T's team's ideal of Toormore making it at a good gallop with N of T dropped in .

I don't think it suited Toormore at all and he pulled much too hard . I suspect he needs a confidence booster .
 
Reet...he has now run in two mile races where the jockey on the leader dictated the pace to suit their own mount..so why have both horses been beaten? .

if Kingman is so vulnerable...then why in this race and the irish guineas did not the leaders make it a harder test?...do you know for sure it was a slow pace today?...do you think even pace races are slow and only pace burn ups are fast?...do you really think a horse that wins like he did today...up that mountain you always refer to at Ascot...is going to lose if they go a bit faster

the guineas is just misleading NOT supporters and putting them away
 
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Would it be an outrageous flouting of tradition for the Ascot Stakes to be reduced to 2miles ? Then the extreme stayers could all run in the Queen Alexandra whilst giving the 2 milers a race ?
 
Midterm Break won in a very nice time and Bwana is interesting at a price on better ground but nothing to get exciting about
 
Gamla Stan said:
Are you on Kingman?

I'd have this bet every day, the prices just are incorrect. Very rare for a Group One but there's no way Kingman has a 55% chance of winning this.
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I see why you think it wasn't value but i think sometimes you know one horse is better than the other, irrespective of previous run. Remember the French 1000. Guineas where you backed Beauty Parlour at odds even you thought you were too skinny because you were sure she would win? And that day I was the one holding all the value bets!
 
Help please!
I have some strong fancies drawn low in two one mile races tomorrow, many runners. How significant disadvantage is there likely to be tomorrow?
 
Fairly electric from Kingman today, I thought James Doyle had him far enough back with Hughes controlling the race but fair play to he, he knew what he had underneath him.

As for the rest of the week connections of Pale Mimosa are hopeful of a good run in the Gold Cup on Thursday, a step up in trip but I notice it's been supported across the board today, 20's less than a week ago.
 
EC1 said:
Reet...he has now run in two mile races where the jockey on the leader dictated the pace to suit their own mount..so why have both horses been beaten? .

if Kingman is so vulnerable...then why in this race and the irish guineas did not the leaders make it a harder test?...do you know for sure it was a slow pace today?...do you think even pace races are slow and only pace burn ups are fast?...do you really think a horse that wins like he did today...up that mountain you always refer to at Ascot...is going to lose if they go a bit faster

the guineas is just misleading NOT supporters and putting them away
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I came on this thread (not literally) thinking that the performance would be eulogised. Im with you ec. That level of authority is not easily reversed

A fabulous horse. Under jg he will probably keep improving all season too
 
Just had a second look at the race and thought that Joseph must have thought that War Command is some horse, held up behind and allowing Kingman first run. He must be after Spencer's crown.
 
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