Speed Figure calculation and usage

Going by the WFA scale, horses are less mature over 12f in early June than they are over 8f in early May.
 
As a matter of interest, what did the speed freaks make of the going at Royal Ascot on day one?

I would describe it as "Good to Firm" (going allowance 74 for races on straight course: range for GF is 70 to 90).

The wind, behind them in the straight, will have been a factor, but probably not quite enough to go along with the official "Good", imo.

Thoughts.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
Going by the WFA scale, horses are less mature over 12f in early June than they are over 8f in early May.
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well ..just adjust for the difference a month makes..a couple of pounds knocked off the Derby winners speed figures?..that should bring the immaturity in line

i still bet the Derby winners and guineas winners don't differ by 5 or 6 lbs in favour of the guineas..which shows adding more to 12f horses is not correct.

maybe Pru could post the last 10 speed figures Timeform gave for derby and guineas.

Pru i posted my going allowance above somewhere 30 odd lb fast per mile..very fast..some wind assist as you say..but looks good/firm even allowing for that..maybe thats why the round course times were slower..running against the wind before meeting the tailwind
 
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Two Thousand Guineas

Year...Horse...............Form/Time
2010...Makfi...............125/121
2009...Sea The Stars...128/124
2008...Henryhthenav....124/117
2007...Cockney Reb.....125/124
2006...Geo Wash.........129/122
2005...Footstepsint......120/110
2004...Haafhd.............129/129
2003...Refuse To Bend..122/118
2002...Rock of Gib........120/112
2001...Golan................122/122

The Derby

Year...Horse...............Form/Time
2010...Workforce.........132/134
2009...Sea The Stars...126/118
2008...New Approach...128/108
2007...Authorized........132/131
2006...Sir Percy...........119/115
2005...Motivator..........131/128
2004...North Light.........125/125
2003...Kris Kin..............122/119
2002...High Chaparral.....130/123
2001...Galileo................132/125

Two Thousand averages: 124.4/119.9 (-4.5)
Derby averages: 127.7/122.6 (-5.1)

Nothing meaningful about WFA could be extrapolated from those, which tell you much more about the individual abilities of the winners and the pace of the races.

BTW, Jersey Stakes broke the track record by 0.95 sec. Clerk of The Course finally got round to calling the ground predominantly "Good to Firm" shortly before the first...
 
J Alfred Prufrock said:
Two Thousand Guineas

Year...Horse...............Form/Time
2010...Makfi...............125/121
2009...Sea The Stars...128/124
2008...Henryhthenav....124/117
2007...Cockney Reb.....125/124
2006...Geo Wash.........129/122
2005...Footstepsint......120/110
2004...Haafhd.............129/129
2003...Refuse To Bend..122/118
2002...Rock of Gib........120/112
2001...Golan................122/122

The Derby

Year...Horse...............Form/Time
2010...Workforce.........132/134
2009...Sea The Stars...126/118
2008...New Approach...128/108
2007...Authorized........132/131
2006...Sir Percy...........119/115
2005...Motivator..........131/128
2004...North Light.........125/125
2003...Kris Kin..............122/119
2002...High Chaparral.....130/123
2001...Galileo................132/125

Two Thousand averages: 124.4/119.9 (-4.5)
Derby averages: 127.7/122.6 (-5.1)

Nothing meaningful about WFA could be extrapolated from those, which tell you much more about the individual abilities of the winners and the pace of the races.

BTW, Jersey Stakes broke the track record by 0.95 sec. Clerk of The Course finally got round to calling the ground predominantly "Good to Firm" shortly before the first...
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the wfa only differs by 2lb anyway between races - tend to agree

we'll have to find another way i think
 
Ascot: 16 June 2010

Going: FIRM (+56lbs per mile)

99 RAINFALL
90 STRAWBERRYDAIQUIRI
66 BYWORD
100 INVISIBLE MAN
90 MAQAASID
89 TIMEPIECE

no wfa added

thats one of the fastest allowances i ever calculated:blink:

the round course again is slower than the straight..Bywords time though would make Canford Cliffs a big figure..was Bywords race slowly run?..i'll guess yes


was there a headwind again?..i'll guess yes :)
 
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It's a tailwind. Should be speeding them upa bit in the straight.The Prince of Wales definitely not truly run.
 
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I'd be very wary of comparing one day's times with another's. The going stick readings at the start of the week were always pointing to proper fast ground and the 'new' straight course is always faster than the round one.

I still can't believe none of the low-drawn horses in the Hunt Cup tried to grab the stands' rail. The 2yo later in the afternon showed it's better over there than in the middle. I'd be willing to bet they'll get to the rail in the Wokingham.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I still can't believe none of the low-drawn horses in the Hunt Cup tried to grab the stands' rail. The 2yo later in the afternon showed it's better over there than in the middle. I'd be willing to bet they'll get to the rail in the Wokingham.
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Never assume that jockeys will demonstrate intelligence. How they contrived to come up the middle in the last yesterday is beyond me.
 
davidjohnson said:
Was wondering what you made of it EC. Given the fact it was a handicap, and they've not really finished that well strung out, and that the field were 5 from 24 in handicaps coming into the race, how much do you want to stick your neck on the block and suggest the first 6 are all well ahead of their marks.
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Treadwell wins :D..2nd in Cansili's race...20.0 on betfair before they ran off
 
And I backed Himalya. Watched a replay of the Epsom race this morning, every chance Treadwell kicked on a bit soon at Epsom too. Hope you were on.
 
davidjohnson said:
And I backed Himalya. Watched a replay of the Epsom race this morning, every chance Treadwell kicked on a bit soon at Epsom too. Hope you were on.
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I was on but not large - i've backed 3 this week that we have noted here..two were in the Brittania so you can't be expecting much..similarily today..i stuck it in the comp and had a tenner on ..twas a competetive race
 
Might not have been 100% on the job. Also highlights the pitfalls of punting in duff midweek races (says he who lost five points on one horse in one little race on Saturday yet managed to secure more than 5 points profit overall on the day thanks to Ascot).
 
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My going allowances for the five days...

Tuesday: Straight -0.32spf, Rnd -0.30
Wed: Str -0.52, Rnd not claculated (only one race)
Thu: Str -0.47, Rnd -0.40
Fri: Str -0.41, Rnd -0.24
Sat: Str -0.38, Rnd -0.24

Not sure why the round course would suddenly ride slower on Friday and Saturday. I didn't think they'd watered it.
 
Desert Orchid said:
My going allowances for the five days...

Tuesday: Straight -0.32spf, Rnd -0.30
Wed: Str -0.52, Rnd not claculated (only one race)
Thu: Str -0.47, Rnd -0.40
Fri: Str -0.41, Rnd -0.24
Sat: Str -0.38, Rnd -0.24

Not sure why the round course would suddenly ride slower on Friday and Saturday. I didn't think they'd watered it.
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i think the round course was slower all week DO

on tuesday for instance CC's race was a lot slower than Goldikova..and G's wasn't a fast race.
 
I know the round course is slower anyway. I just wondered why it should ride slower on the Friday and Saturday compared with Tues-Thu when there had been no rain and I didn't think they'd watered it. Logically, you'd expect it to be at least as fast by the end of the week as it was at the beginning.

If my figures are right, it also meand the COC got the watering of the straight bang on.
 
i doubt the round and straight course will ever get the same going ...since they altered it all we have a sort of concrete straight where the round course just never gets as fast

yes..they didn't try to correct a bias this time with the pipes :)..if he had left well alone last year it would have been like this year..ok
 
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