The Derby 2008
- Thread starter Harbinger
- Start date
Powerscourt
At the Start
Think he will surely run in the Irish Derby.
Might see him take on Henry again in the Irish Champion.
Might see him take on Henry again in the Irish Champion.
trackside528
At the Start
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Get the impression that Bolger's association with the horse will end at the end of his 3yo campaign, and it'll be up to Sheikh Mohammed and Darley where he goes from there.
Gamla Stan
At the Start
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After what I thought was a disappointing and poor renewal of the Oaks, I was worried the Derby would be a similar story, however New Approach and Kevin Manning deserve all the plaudits. I've watched the race a few times now and Manning gives him an absolute peach, his antics in the earlier stages of the race can't have been easy to manage and his decision to make a move for the far rail was masterful, it's been evident that the better ground was there for the whole meeting. I think Casual Conquest's lack of experience counted against him and I reckon he'll come into his own in the Autumn. I thought Rio De Le Plata ran an absolute blinder too, he got hammered about 2 out and he probably didn't stay the 1m4f but I'd be interested in him if they take the Eclipse route with him.
Whilst New Approach was impressive and Manning rode an exquisite race, I have to say Jim Bolger has left me thinking even less of him after his post-race interview. I cannot believe he still had the audacity to say that it was a mistake to leave him in the race. There is no two ways about it, he has misled the people at the bottom level of the racing food chain who are so vital to his profession. He's probably also guaranteed his future classic prospects are a few points than they should be in the betting after this disgraceful episode.
Whilst New Approach was impressive and Manning rode an exquisite race, I have to say Jim Bolger has left me thinking even less of him after his post-race interview. I cannot believe he still had the audacity to say that it was a mistake to leave him in the race. There is no two ways about it, he has misled the people at the bottom level of the racing food chain who are so vital to his profession. He's probably also guaranteed his future classic prospects are a few points than they should be in the betting after this disgraceful episode.
A strange race in a number of ways. NEW APPROACH didn't look the most comfortable of rides and hardly did RIO DE LA PLATA any favours as he shifted down the camber to the rail. Had he done that further on and hampered say the second, he might have lost the race but that's Epsom for you.
The second ran a blinder and now looks a better Dante winner then some. If the winner swerves it, The Curragh looks the obvious target and then, the Leger perhaps ? To be fair, TARTAN BEARER can only improve and is sure to find his Group 1 somewhere.
The first two were drawing clear at the line and I'm not optimistic CASUAL CONQUEST would beat either any time soon. That said, he ran a great race on only his third outing and will improve further. He got buffeted around a bit in the early stages and I'm not convinced he quite got home.
The second ran a blinder and now looks a better Dante winner then some. If the winner swerves it, The Curragh looks the obvious target and then, the Leger perhaps ? To be fair, TARTAN BEARER can only improve and is sure to find his Group 1 somewhere.
The first two were drawing clear at the line and I'm not optimistic CASUAL CONQUEST would beat either any time soon. That said, he ran a great race on only his third outing and will improve further. He got buffeted around a bit in the early stages and I'm not convinced he quite got home.
I wonder how much Bolger's stubborness is all to do with wounded pride - having siad HE had sole charge of the colt's programme, and then finding out that he didn't and not wanting to admit it? The whole thing does seem very odd, but then Lush Lashes' participation in the Oaks wasn't exactly straightforward either
Regarding Casual Conquest, I agree totally with Gamla that he's the one to take out. I thought long and hard whether to put him or Curtain Call into a Trifecta with TB and NA, and in the end went for the Cumani 'ring of confidence'!! Wrong call - but Casual Conquest did brilliantly for one of his inexperience, esp being a big horse. Def one to look out for, will be suited by York or Newmarket?
Regarding Casual Conquest, I agree totally with Gamla that he's the one to take out. I thought long and hard whether to put him or Curtain Call into a Trifecta with TB and NA, and in the end went for the Cumani 'ring of confidence'!! Wrong call - but Casual Conquest did brilliantly for one of his inexperience, esp being a big horse. Def one to look out for, will be suited by York or Newmarket?
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
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- Aug 2, 2005
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I've tried to address this point elsewhere.
He's run in two 'Guineas' prior to today. I remain of the opinion than he can't have had hard races in those 'Guineas' on the basis that he's a genuine top class middle distance horse and, as such, can't have had hard races at trips short of today's.
Today was his first 'hard' race of the season and, given the difficulties he overcame and the ease with which he did so, I'd argue his season really only just started today.
Jamie
At the Start
Excellent piece by Steve Miller in the Raceform Update and an excellent tipping result aswell, well done mate!
I just watched the BBC re-run, not having RUK, and there was an extended piece with Bolger. He was very fulsome indeed about how much he and all of them owe this win to Kevin Manning - quite rightly imo - he described it as the most difficulot and demanding Derby ride he'd ever seen.
He felt no-one else could have got NA settled in the prelims, got him directed then settled during the race - would have had the balls to settle him so far out the back, then the strength to propel such a difficult ride through the gaps - and believe me, the overhead if you haven't seen it really does tell the tale graphically of how much duking and diving was going on.
The re-run also showed how close it was in the end, and that Tartan Bearer was still making up ground again right to the line. Very exciting to watch form several angles
What Bolger was saying made me think again of all those in the forums who argue that they back the horse and don't bother with who's riding. Today and a large extent yesterday too, emphasised for me how very important it is esp at top level for a jockey to know the horse. Only Manning could have harnessed that speed and power today simply because he and this horse are a team.
He felt no-one else could have got NA settled in the prelims, got him directed then settled during the race - would have had the balls to settle him so far out the back, then the strength to propel such a difficult ride through the gaps - and believe me, the overhead if you haven't seen it really does tell the tale graphically of how much duking and diving was going on.
The re-run also showed how close it was in the end, and that Tartan Bearer was still making up ground again right to the line. Very exciting to watch form several angles
What Bolger was saying made me think again of all those in the forums who argue that they back the horse and don't bother with who's riding. Today and a large extent yesterday too, emphasised for me how very important it is esp at top level for a jockey to know the horse. Only Manning could have harnessed that speed and power today simply because he and this horse are a team.
I agree. The horse is a bit of a cuss as we know, but in fairness he must be quite confused after being asked to make it in the Guineas and today being wrestled back through the field. Small wonder it took him time to settle. I wasn’t as impressed as many appear to be with the way Manning insisted on fighting with him early on and then riding him into the backs of horses later and diving across runners to get room on the rail. Nevertheless, it worked. Somehow the pair made room to use NA’s class. New Approach was climbing all over them and it would have been a travesty had he lost. He is much better than this half a length win would suggest. There is no doubt middle distance is where he should be. Bolger now has time to work on getting the colt to settle in his races and Willie Carson may well be right in saying that the race will have taught him not to be quite so willful.
Must say I wouldn't have entertained the winner and was impressed so i'll eat my hat there.
Delighted Tartan Bearer ran his race, love the little horse as he is a bonnie character and has a great attitude, i thought for sure he would battle back and pity there wasn't another furlong as I feel New Approach got a couple of lengths on Tartan before the horse spotted him there started to rally. Thought it was a good race to watch despite backing the 2nd and also felt Doctor Frematle travelled as if he could be an exciting 10f horse.
Delighted Tartan Bearer ran his race, love the little horse as he is a bonnie character and has a great attitude, i thought for sure he would battle back and pity there wasn't another furlong as I feel New Approach got a couple of lengths on Tartan before the horse spotted him there started to rally. Thought it was a good race to watch despite backing the 2nd and also felt Doctor Frematle travelled as if he could be an exciting 10f horse.
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Well, I have to admit to getting the first two home horribly wrong.
I thought Bolger had fecked up New Approach's chances with two seemingly hard races over a mile, one on ground that the horse seemed to hate.
As far as Tartan Bearer is concerned I didn't think he had done nearly enough to justify his position at the front of the market.
On yesterday's evidence the winner is some horse.
BTW, not that I can take all the credit for this idea (someone on another forum planted the idea), but, is Ryan Moore appearing to be morphing into Jamie Spencer?
A number of his rides lately have been drop out the back and try to come from first to last.
I thought Bolger had fecked up New Approach's chances with two seemingly hard races over a mile, one on ground that the horse seemed to hate.
As far as Tartan Bearer is concerned I didn't think he had done nearly enough to justify his position at the front of the market.
On yesterday's evidence the winner is some horse.
BTW, not that I can take all the credit for this idea (someone on another forum planted the idea), but, is Ryan Moore appearing to be morphing into Jamie Spencer?
A number of his rides lately have been drop out the back and try to come from first to last.
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
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Only when my money's on...
I agree. The horse is a bit of a cuss as we know, but in fairness he must be quite confused after being asked to make it in the Guineas and today being wrestled back through the field. Small wonder it took him time to settle. I wasn’t as impressed as many appear to be with the way Manning insisted on fighting with him early on and then riding him into the backs of horses later and diving across runners to get room on the rail. Nevertheless, it worked. Somehow the pair made room to use NA’s class. New Approach was climbing all over them and it would have been a travesty had he lost. He is much better than this half a length win would suggest. There is no doubt middle distance is where he should be. Bolger now has time to work on getting the colt to settle in his races and Willie Carson may well be right in saying that the race will have taught him not to be quite so willful. [/b][/quote]
I totally agree with that. To be honest, I think his traffic management was more a case of getting lucky than any wise choices - he simply didn't have any choices down the straight. He went to the only bit of space that enabled him to move forward, which, happily for Manning, whooshed him out to the front.
The main credit Manning shares with the Bolger team is getting him to the start in perfect order.
He is a dream Derby winner though, unlike a few more recent winners, he is one you would probably expect to improve, or at least be equally good, when moved back down to 10 furlongs.
Colin Phillips
At the Start
:shy: :shy: :shy: Unbelievable, the things we say, ay! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
I totally agree with that. To be honest, I think his traffic management was more a case of getting lucky than any wise choices - he simply didn't have any choices down the straight. He went to the only bit of space that enabled him to move forward, which, happily for Manning, whooshed him out to the front.
The main credit Manning shares with the Bolger team is getting him to the start in perfect order.
He is a dream Derby winner though, unlike a few more recent winners, he is one you would probably expect to improve, or at least be equally good, when moved back down to 10 furlongs. [/b][/quote]
Well put Mel. I think Manning was lucky, or at least got away with it. He does deserve credit for getting him to post however.
While the jockey was probably lucky to win the horse would have been decidely unlucky to lose.
NA's actual rating for the Derby will probably not set the world alight, but this horse is better than his rating and better at middle distances than a mile (despite what the ratings say for the time being), although I agree 10 furlongs will not disadvantage him in the least.
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Not you, Mel, I put somethin' stupid in my post that DO kindly 
picked up!!!
picked up!!!