The Derby Sat June 5th 2021

I noticed it blue in various places through the week so topped up at 32 hoping to have an interest to no risk. This helps :)
 
BREAKING: Ed Dunlop has confirmed Adam Kirby will ride John Leeper in next month’s Cazoo Derby at Epsom.

..........

We can assume Hollie Doyle and more importantly Frankie Dettori turned down the ride because of Ballydoyle. Frankie on High Definition me thinks.
 
St Aidan quoted on the RTV site:

Bolshoi Ballet:

I am very happy with him; everything has gone well so far. He started off at Leopardstown in the Ballysax Stakes and we were very happy with him. He then went to the Derrinstown Stud Derby Trial and we were very happy with him in that as well and he seems to be in good form.

He is a very well-balanced horse. He seems to get the mile and quarter very well and he is very relaxed, very off-handed, and tactically he is very easy to place in a race.

We always thought middle distances wouldn’t be a problem to him. Obviously, you are never sure until you run over the mile and a half, but we always thought he would stay.


High Definition;

I am very happy with him. Obviously, he had a very interrupted preparation - a week before the Dante he wouldn’t have been able to run. He just came right a couple of days before. We knew he had to run if he was going to The Derby and we couldn’t have been happier.

It is far from ideal (the colt’s preparation), but we are very lucky it came right itself without having to medicate him. When the blood first came out the way it was, I did not think he would make it (to York) and I didn’t think the blood would come back, but it did naturally for some reason.

Obviously, we were going to ride him patiently (in the Dante), kindly and gently, and that is what Ryan did. We were very happy with his run at York. He covered the last three furlongs quicker than anyone else in the race, so that is a very good sign for a horse like him.
 
Does Prescott have a point?

Quoted in the RP:


“There is not the same excitement now."

As to why that might be the case, Prescott added: "What happens these days is that the horses don't run enough at two for people to get to know them. They have no allegiances, and I believe too many are in one kennel. You couldn't possibly do it, and I'm not an advocate of restraint of trade, but there's a case for limiting each trainer to 70 horses, as they do in Japan.

"The best trainers would still get almost all the best horses but it would make it more interesting. Nobody really wants to train 300 horses but they do it because they don't want others to have them in case there's a good one. Until recently, each trainer only had one Derby horse."



I'm not sure where his socio-political beliefs lie but I imagine them being somewhere quite far off to the right, just beyond those of Genghis Khan, so his suggestion strikes me as a little inconsistent with those beliefs in that the further right you go you are more entrenched in the idea of market forces dictating matters.

Even a leftie like me who doesn't even want bookmakers, wouldn't want to see limits imposed in line with his suggestion.

It is all, though, getting a wee bit like the Champions League where only a handful of entities are able to monopolise the talent.
 
I think it`s beyond doubt that the Derby has lost much of it`s attraction. Moving it from Wednesday to Saturday may have made financial sense but it meant instead of having the day to itself it became just another Saturday sporting event. And, of course, Prescott`s points are valid. Stables with multiple entries muddies the waters and puts many punters off. Unfortunately, there`s nowt anybody can do now!!
 
Desperate Dan said:
I think it`s beyond doubt that the Derby has lost much of it`s attraction. Moving it from Wednesday to Saturday may have made financial sense but it meant instead of having the day to itself it became just another Saturday sporting event. And, of course, Prescott`s points are valid. Stables with multiple entries muddies the waters and puts many punters off. Unfortunately, there`s nowt anybody can do now!!
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The race is ruined because Ballydoyle have all the Gailieo stock. When he is gone I expect the south to rise again. Prescott's solution is just stupid. Aidan O'Brien would have a licence in every family member and pet's name. "Another Group 1 success for Tiddles O'Brien, Mewow.
 
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Desert Orchid said:
Does Prescott have a point?

You couldn't possibly do it, and I'm not an advocate of restraint of trade, but there's a case for limiting each trainer to 70 horses, as they do in Japan.
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That would be interesting as Galileo churns 70 out in a couple of sittings!
Though how long does he have left.
 
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A different race over a different distance on a different day where Mac Swiney came back to his best though.

I can't believe how short the bookmakers are on several runners. The overround antipost already starting to look grotesque.
 
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Maxbet said:
Bolshoi had his form franked today by Mac Swiney
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Apples and oranges.

Mac Swiney wouldn't have beaten me that day. I was very disappointed at the time but as soon as I read about the mucus discharge I didn't feel half as bad.

Brigadier Gerard, according to the bio about him, had a large mucus discharge after being beaten by Roberto.

I honestly didn't fancy him at all yesterday, though. The brother had phoned in the morning saying he was backing it. I said something along the lines of the Derby only being two weeks away and he probably couldn't afford to have a hard race.

I thought, being a 12f horse in waiting (New Approach/Teofilo, [FONT=&quot]DP = 1-0-11-10-0 (22) DI = 0.42 CD = -0.36 )[/FONT], he would be ridden to put him closer to peak fitness and thought he might sneak into a minor place.

He should arguably be favourite now, even ahead of High Definition, having authoritatively won the second most important G1 of the season to date in GB & Ireland over a trip likely to be short of his optimum.
 
Mick Kinane believes Bolshoi Ballet possess the “perfect mindset” to strike gold in this year’s Cazoo Derby and follow in the hoofprints of his illustrious sire Galileo on the 20th anniversary of his Classic victory in the Epsom Downs showpiece.

In recent years no horse has left a greater impression on the Derby than 2001 winner Galileo who has gone on to sire a record five winners of the race, a figure former jockey Kinane expects to be six following the conclusion of this year’s renewal on Saturday June 5.

While the betting suggests Bolshoi Ballet is the horse everyone has to beat in this year’s Cazoo Derby, Kinane has drawn further optimism that he is number one in trainer Aidan O’Brien’s pecking order after taking the same route to Epsom Downs that Galileo did 20 years ago.

After making a winning return in the Group Three Ballysax Stakes at Leopardstown over 10 furlongs, Bolshoi Ballet jumped to the head of the Cazoo Derby market when following up at the same level over course and distance in the Derrinstown Stud Derby Trial just under a month later.
Kinane said: “Bolshoi Ballet has taken the route Galileo took all those years ago by taking in both the Ballysax and Derrinstown, which are strong Epsom trials.
 
But it isn't a route the recent Ballydoyle winners have taken.

Come the day, I'd be very tempted to take HD to beat BB in a match bet if the latter is favourite.
 
That wasn't the point I was making, HW. I checked backed through the past Ballydoyle winners and concluded that they had changed their approach, that for some time they haven't been going via specific routes for the pecking order. I presume they just go for whichever trial falls best into the stage of progress of training the horses are at while using them as markers for each other.

HD wasn't even supposed to be going for the Dante, remember. He was going for the Lingfield race until his iffy blood count.
 
Desert Orchid said:
That wasn't the point I was making, HW. I checked backed through the past Ballydoyle winners and concluded that they had changed their approach, that for some time they haven't been going via specific routes for the pecking order. I presume they just go for whichever trial falls best into the stage of progress of training the horses are at while using them as markers for each other.

HD wasn't even supposed to be going for the Dante, remember. He was going for the Lingfield race until his iffy blood count.
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Sure. But if you are making a case of Bolshoi Ballet vs High Definition, using the race they targeted isn't the one that the I'd use. I do think that they start out with their main Derby hope going Ballysax - Derrinstown unless they are Guineas horses or they dont know which of a handful is their best. Then its pot luck.
 
HawkWing said:
Sure. But if you are making a case of Bolshoi Ballet vs High Definition, using the race they targeted isn't the one that the I'd use.
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Isn't that exactly what I was saying?


HawkWing said:
I do think that they start out with their main Derby hope going Ballysax - Derrinstown
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I think that used to be the case (again, I thought I said that) but there's no evidence in the last several years that it's the case any more.

HawkWing said:
they dont know which of a handful is their best.
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I do think this has been the case in some recent seasons.
 
I think the problem aiden and the lads have had is that Galileo in his later years has been covering much faster horses so they don’t know who is going to be a miler and who is going to be a ten to twelve furlong horse. Plus horses like Van Gogh who on pedigree looks like needing 12 f has been campaigned at a mile. I can’t help feel that if the lads would just leave aiden and his team to map out horses targets they would ultimately win more big races. Van Gogh it would seem ran at the Curragh as the other milers bar smbasilica aren’t firing. Coolmore can’t seem to accept maybe just letting the horse tell them what’s best and need to have a couple in every big race. Maybe once Galileo retires they will breed less distance with speed. I hope so anyway for everybody’s sakes.
 
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