The Epsom Derby

I was very swayed by Kevin Blake’s argument this morning and just couldn’t get away from quite how chilled this horse was in the preliminaries. He has an ethereal aura about him. Well done Ballydoyle...on this occasion they weren’t b*llsh*tting!
 
Nice to see a good 'un do his stuff.

I wonder if connections of AF will regret jocking Shepherd off. I thought Havlin was 'way over-confident and could have sent him on when he had momentum. I'm not saying he'd have won but he could have kicked three or four clear and made COT work a lot harder.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Nice to see a good 'un do his stuff.

I wonder if connections of AF will regret jocking Shepherd off. I thought Havlin was 'way over-confident and could have sent him on when he had momentum. I'm not saying he'd have won but he could have kicked three or four clear and made COT work a lot harder.
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Correct. I was saying go when I saw Ryan was engaging. Could have been a lot closer. Still, the winner was good!
 
He might just be as good as Aiden said........I never did get over the enthusiasm he had for the horse before he flopped in the Guineas.

When they had covered 6 furlongs I was backing him in running......he was absolutely cruising.
 
I think he genuinely is as good as they say. Ryan struggled to pull him up once he’d got him rolling. And says he’s still green through the race. Physically he’s done well since the Guineas where I thought he looked on the less robust side. But he seems now to look better. He’s still not the biggest but he doesn’t look weedy which I thought he did at Newmarket. And his stride just devours the ground.

I was so upset when Hidden Lake died at Chester as I thought the Derby was his. He could have made it an interesting contest but this horse is serious and on his pedigree it looks like they have found their successor to Galileo.
 
Frankel said:
Correct. I was saying go when I saw Ryan was engaging. Could have been a lot closer. Still, the winner was good!
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He did go at the same time within 1/2 second as City of Troy

Rab Havlin gave the horse a great ride.. Take City of Troy out of the picture and he'd have been a very impressive Derby winner.

Rab kept him balanced for as long as he could and he went at the same time as City of Troy.

The amount of energy at that it would have taken to shoot 3 lengths clear 3f to 2.5f out would have stalled his engine like he'd been shot.
 
Must say I could see that happening and apart from having a bet on him did my best to get him beat.
That said, when I saw Ryan Moore's wide smile as they arrived at the start BEFORE the race, I put the white flag up.
With Aiden describing the Justify's as being like Galileo's but with more class, I am gobsmacked.
Hope they rock onto Saratoga now to try the dirt.
Horses are for racing, and APOB, Bless him , is not afraid to run them.
Long Live The King .
 
Yes, take COT out and AF would have been an impressive winner of a very poor race but look at the race again. Tanlic. Havlin, a jockey I like, was hack cantering on AF while Moore was making his ground, possibly hidden from Havlin, down the inside and by the time Havlin reacted COT was going clear with momentum.

I agree too that going sooner would have used up more energy but it would have got him ground and momentum and would have made COT work harder.
 
Frankel said:
He's just not a miler!
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Was a lot more to what happened in the Guineas. Aiden and Ryan spoke and decided he got badly upset by something entering the stalls but the racing world to be frank thought they were talking shyte.

Not one pundit out of 10 on the SL gave him a chance of winning today
 
Desert Orchid said:
Yes, take COT out and AF would have been an impressive winner of a very poor race but look at the race again. Tanlic. Havlin, a jockey I like, was hack cantering on AF while Moore was making his ground, possibly hidden from Havlin, down the inside and by the time Havlin reacted COT was going clear with momentum.

I agree too that going sooner would have used up more energy but it would have got him ground and momentum and would have made COT work harder.
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Even if he didn't see him he'd hear him.....the screams coming out of jockeys gobs are deafening.
 
Tanlic said:
He did go at the same time within 1/2 second as City of Troy

Rab Havlin gave the horse a great ride.. Take City of Troy out of the picture and he'd have been a very impressive Derby winner.

Rab kept him balanced for as long as he could and he went at the same time as City of Troy.

The amount of energy at that it would have taken to shoot 3 lengths clear 3f to 2.5f out would have stalled his engine like he'd been shot.
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Er no he didn't. Ryan was fully engaged way before when the 2nd was on the bridle. By the time he asked the question the winner took a few lengths out of him. He closed to about a length before the winner just kept going. The winner was relentless.
I actually wouldn't crib the ride too much because he was keen early. He wanted to make sure he had enough in the tank to get home.
The winner would have got him in last half furlong had he kicked earlier. Would have made it even more exciting.

Did help the winner running over a trip!
 
Frankel said:
Er no he didn't. Ryan was fully engaged way before when the 2nd was on the bridle. By the time he asked the question the winner took a few lengths out of him. He closed to about a length before the winner just kept going. The winner was relentless.
I actually wouldn't crib the ride too much because he was keen early. He wanted to make sure he had enough in the tank to get home.
The winner would have got him in last half furlong had he kicked earlier. Would have made it even more exciting.

Did help the winner running over a trip!
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Tanlic said:
Reet must be in his counting house :D .......I think he had a tidy sum on City of Troy
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Indeed,Fist.:cheers:
 
Tanlic said:
Was a lot more to what happened in the Guineas. Aiden and Ryan spoke and decided he got badly upset by something entering the stalls but the racing world to be frank thought they were talking shyte.

Not one pundit out of 10 on the SL gave him a chance of winning today
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Well he won't be running over a mile again.

He was hardly unfancied. Was the obvious danger. The only danger in my eyes...as it proved.

Where he goes next!
 
Hard luck with your selection, Luke, but Voyage is surely one to keep an eye on. How many horses would be able to do what he did? He galloped free, going from last to first in the space of a few furlongs on the toughest part of the track, ran wide around Tattenham Corner before leading the field up the straight.

Of course, he had no jockey while doing all that but it surely suggests he has an engine and an appetite for racing.
 
When you're 61 and been following racing your entire adult life, you might be forgiven for thinking you've seen it all.

But last year Aidan O'Brien got Auguste Rodin back from a lamentable Guineas to win The Derby and he's only gone and done it again with City Of Troy,

Back-to-back miracles.

And "preceded only by loose horses" (well, "horse" to paraphrase Peter O'Sullevan's immortal Grand National commentary).

As previously stated I backed him at double-digit odds for both the 2,000 Guineas and The Derby last year and I felt a bit of a fraud getting paid today because I'd completely given up hope.

Superb colt, the way City Of Troy won reminded me a bit of Golden Fleece in 1982 as he's come pretty much from last to first.

I agree with those who say Rab Havlin should have kicked on earlier on Ambiente Friendly - he was on the proven stayer and his only hope was to try to get the favourite at it 2f out.

He's let Ryan Moore pass him on the inside, while still sitting motionless himself.

But while he might have made more of a race of it that way, I doubt he would have won.

And Los Angeles surprised me finishing third as I thought he looked a right slow old boat when winning at Leopardstown.

I think this was a decent Derby after a decent 2,000 Guineas.

Never write off the year you're in too soon.
 
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Grey said:
Hard luck with your selection, Luke, but Voyage is surely one to keep an eye on. How many horses would be able to do what he did? He galloped free, going from last to first in the space of a few furlongs on the toughest part of the track, ran wide around Tattenham Corner before leading the field up the straight.

Of course, he had no jockey while doing all that but it surely suggests he has an engine and an appetite for racing.
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Yes. I've said similar before about NH horses who get rid of their jockeys early and pass the post first.
 
Ian_Davies said:
When you're 61 and been following racing your entire adult life, you might be forgiven for thinking you've seen it all.

But last year Aidan O'Brien got Auguste Rodin back from a lamentable Guineas to win The Derby and he's only gone and done it again with City Of Troy,

Back-to-back miracles.

...

I think this was a decent Derby after a decent 2,000 Guineas.

Never write off the year you're in too soon.
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a) Could this be the next big 'trend'? AOB hotpots getting stuffed in the 2000G and then storming home in the Derby? Have 'the Lads' decided the Guineas isn't really worth the bother other than as a prep for bigger things? (And how much did they win laying both AR and COT?)

b) RPRs are going 125 for COT and 120 for AF, so take COT out of the equation and you've got maybe the worst Derby since Oath. Then again, take out COT and RPRs would probably go 122/123 for AF. Best working out one's own ratings...
 
Desert Orchid said:
a) Could this be the next big 'trend'? AOB hotpots getting stuffed in the 2000G and then storming home in the Derby? Have 'the Lads' decided the Guineas isn't really worth the bother other than as a prep for bigger things? (And how much did they win laying both AR and COT?)

b) RPRs are going 125 for COT and 120 for AF, so take COT out of the equation and you've got maybe the worst Derby since Oath. Then again, take out COT and RPRs would probably go 122/123 for AF. Best working out one's own ratings...
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I think there’s a grain of truth in this.

Quite often by the end of the flat season you’d struggle to remember who had won the Guineas, and quite often the Guineas form looks irrelevant by then.

The autumn has filled with heavyweight races, and the real season for the higher class horses is starting later. Maybe twenty years ago trainers started going straight to the Guineas without a trial race and now AOB is trying to take them there not fully primed.
 
I think this is a possibility. CoT looked to have far more muscle definition today that he did at Newmarket. There he looked almost on the weedy side hence the comments that were made. I was far more taken with him today (no KP today for that all important paddock insight....?) and especially with his demeanour. He just took everything in and was chilled as you’d expect a true superstar to be.
 
Desert Orchid said:
a) Could this be the next big 'trend'? AOB hotpots getting stuffed in the 2000G and then storming home in the Derby? Have 'the Lads' decided the Guineas isn't really worth the bother other than as a prep for bigger things? (And how much did they win laying both AR and COT?)

b) RPRs are going 125 for COT and 120 for AF, so take COT out of the equation and you've got maybe the worst Derby since Oath. Then again, take out COT and RPRs would probably go 122/123 for AF. Best working out one's own ratings...
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Depends if they are more a Guineas or Derby horse. He isn't shy of winning the race!
 
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