The Gold Cup 2010

Songsheet said:
What rubbish - if he'd held onto the horse's reins and walked him back quietly, then that would have been the safest course of action to prevent the horse from damaging hinself further.
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I have never been so relieved about anything as I was when he got back up. Bearing in mind how KS had a fracture a few years back RW could have been a bit more sensible and walked him back. That would have been a far greater statement then the exaggerated, stand in the stirrup, canter that he gave him.

As for Findlay, Denman and the National? I'm disgusted at the prospect. If this were to happen then I give up on NH. Horse is clearly past his best, what with his heart problems, and should be given more respect then his greedy part owner would wish on him. Hopefully, Mr B has greater wisdom and feeling.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
Looks like the RP are rating it through Mon Mome at 155. Only willing to give the winner 182.
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I think that's very generous!

If I were rating it through Mon Mome at 155, I'd only be giving IC 175. 30 lengths is 20lbs in my book.

I'd query the form in general. Kauto fell. Denman didn't look as zippy as he had been at Newbury and Cooldine pulled far too hard throughout the first circuit. I'm surprised the jockeys allowed the pace to be so sedate.

Imperial Commander would be worth a + and would be a better than average Gold Cup winner all the same.
 
i would agree DO..the form is questionable re putting form ratings on as the race so favoured those near front of pace..due to steady early..all pace was in latter stages..some have got caught flatfooted

any rating put to race should have ? rather than +
 
Given that Imperial Commander clearly needs nice long breaks between races, how many times will we see him next season?
 
Turtle's fan said:
As for Findlay, Denman and the National? I'm disgusted at the prospect. If this were to happen then I give up on NH. Horse is clearly past his best, what with his heart problems, and should be given more respect then his greedy part owner would wish on him.
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For starters, this assertion that Denman is 'clearly past his best' is based on what, exactly? It's one hell of a flimsy case to make quite frankly after a season in which he bolted up in one of the weight carrying performances of recent years to win the Hennessy then finished a good second in the Gold Cup with 23l back to the third placed horse who, incidentally, is such a poor horse he's the reigning Grand National winner.

So far as I can see there is no reason whatsoever why Denman should not run in the National, in fact I'd welcome seeing it. Maybe the horse should be retired now in the opinion of these blinkered types who think it is such an outrage to run a horse of such quality in what is after all, only a handicap.
 
Turtle's fan said:
As for Findlay, Denman and the National? I'm disgusted at the prospect. If this were to happen then I give up on NH. Horse is clearly past his best, what with his heart problems, and should be given more respect then his greedy part owner would wish on him. Hopefully, Mr B has greater wisdom and feeling.
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His heart problems are in the past, they are irrelevent. I kind of a agree with the pundit (can't remember who) who suggested that he could be a once a year horse. I think we get so attached to these animals that we are too precious sometimes. Look at a horse like L'Escargot and how many huge races he was asked to run in, Nationals and Gold Cup's - there's no reason a tank like Denman couldn't be nursed to the next couple of Aintree marathon's. And Nicholls is just the man for the job. Bottom line is that the last two big races he has contested where he has had a perfect prep were the '08 Gold Cup and the Hennessy this season.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
Ah, but with your poundage you'd probably never have had Mon Mome on 155 in the first place :)
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:) I had him on 160+ for the National but wouldn't use that figure for other form lines. I reckon MM was either much improved for the extra distance or for some special preparation for the race (not unlike the preps that allowed the likes of Stan and Atouchbetweenacara and Something Wells to hack up in competitive races last season). I can't imagine MM's objective today was anything other than a nice run round before Aintree, so I'd proably rate him on the 154 I had him before last year's big win.
 
Arkwright said:
Could easily have broken his neck.

Ah,an Imperial Commander scarf,maybe they should have sold some of them pre-race
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You could pick them up at the Hollow Bottom! ;)

What a fairytale day for team Twiston-Davies. Thrilled for them. But hard to see Denman and Kauto both beaten, and worse KS on the ground.

End of an era, it's a new dawn.
 
Well, I don't much want to see Denman in the National. I watched him in the second place spot and he looked pretty wobbly to me. I think trying to win a National off top weight (which he would undoubtedly be) would be too much to ask.

Kauto travelled fine until the first blunder - totally stuffed after that. There's no way of knowing how things would have panned out if he hadn't made that mistake. PFN shouldn't have said the horse had no flaws - given his jumping record, it was tempting fate!

Ruby was a total dick riding him back.
 
Kauto might be back but I remember how quickly Moscow Flyer when down hill after being a monster in the previous season. Age catches up with everyone...mind you I think he was a year older than Kauto.
 
Hopefully that's it for the season for both of them. They both struggled horribly at Aintree in previous years. Imperial Commander is presumably done for now, too.
 
The priority above all else for Kauto must be to win another King George - Imperial Commander is not a Kempton horse so he won't have him to worry about but Somersby, Long Run and the like could make for a serious test all the same.
 
Imperial Commander goes for the 3miler at Aintree apparently.

I wondered , after the relief of seeing KS get up, whether he was not just " fresh and lethal " but perhaps he was too fresh . He appeared almost to be going too well in the early stages with those extravagant leaps taking him close to the lead and then that crunching , winding mistake - as soon as it was clear he did not recover promptly from that mistake it was curtains but I did not see him falling just thought he would be a disappointing third .

Great run by the winner though , a true Cheltenham specialist and a proper stayer too . Valiant from Denman but surely it is time for some sort of headgear for the curmudgeon.
 
Shadow Leader: next season Denman will be 11. He has run only once at Aintree where he fell. May be that he continues to have a future in racing, and good luck to him, but I query why it is being contemplated that he is a National horse? Somewhat long in the tooth to be introduced to such a course as Aintree. His heart problem may be past and an irrelevance but that does not negate the fact that he had a problem. Additionally, I question Findlay's motives as I believe any decision regarding the National is more about his ego then anything else. Hopefully, he has reflected overnight and a more sensible decision will be made.
 
The two looked in great condition in the paddock, Denman only finished 7 lengths adrift of Imperial. What is this talk of retirement, it isn't like they were tailed off like poor Well Chief, they are far from past it. Jeez, Kauto was going so well with himself before the dreadfull mistake it's not like the pair were being scrubbed along from the off...

One falls and the other loses and now they are worthy of retirement? Please.
 
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I dont think i have committed an act of heresy simply an opinion i know demnan has run well but i would not like to see them start to go down hill from here.
 
I was watching the race with mother-in-law. I said before Kauto's first mistake that the pace was too slow and they were playing into the hands of Imperial Commander, which I couldn't understand. I said Kauto should be going much better than he is but maybe that was my being nervous for him. I'm not convinced the big mistake in the first circuit counted for as much as the media are suggesting. Plenty of horses make bad mistakes early and still win big races. I wanted to see Cooldine get the same positive ride he got last year. He didn't and consequently didn't run to form either.

My lasting impression of the race is that of an unsatisfactory one. Neither Denman nor Cooldine got the aggressive rides they seem so suited by. Everything fell brilliantly for Imperial commander on the day but I'd love to see Kauto back next year to put him in his place.

As for the time compared with the Foxhunters, IC works out only 37lbs faster than Baby Run, which would put the former into the low 170s. Baby Run reportedly ran the first circuit six seconds faster, which just shows up how badly wrong they got the tactics in the Gold Cup.

It will be very interesting to see Denman in the National. Especially if they can manufacture a mark of around 170 for him.
 
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All this "past it" and "retirement" talk for the pair is bonkers...

Kauto hit a fence and the stuffing was knocked out of him. That happens. It doesnt mena he is geriatric..

He is one run on from his best ever performance FFS

"retirement"? This isnt flat racing where the owners would probably prefer never to run the horses at all if they could get a stud fee. This is a sport...

Age catches up with everyone...mind you I think he was a year older than Kauto.
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Moscow Flyer was two years older i think? Also i would guess that staying chasers are more likely to stick around than speedier types

Retirement? Two names...Monkerhostin and mister mcgoldrick..

Having said that I woudnt have Denman in the National. Just doesnt feel right somehow...

As for Imperial commander, would be a brave bet against a repeat next year, but i wonder how the connections of exotic Dancer are feeling right now?
 
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