The JP McManus Thread

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Tanlic said:
Good to hear Alderwood was fine afterwards. What did you think of McCoy's ride on him Slim?
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I've no strong opinion on it but he's one you'd want a mark for the 2m 4f novice handicap at the festival.
 
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We now got JP not only having millions on his own horses he's stopping his and having millions on other peoples :whistle:

He couldn't be expected to beat Sire De Grugy. He was probably a bit short anyway and wouldn't have no matter what McCoy did IMO. It was an ideal race to be running in.

It's not all about gambling....First and foremost the obvious thing here is to get him a decent handicap mark and then he should be in a position to pick up a few decent races. That is so blatantly obvious that every bookie in the country will be watching out for him and if they run him in a poor race they wouldn't get 5 quid on him without setting off every alarm bell in the country.

If they put him in a good race then there's a chance he'll be beaten so it's not as simple as just pushing a button. I do think he's the type of horse who JP could land a decent touch with but it may be sometime down the road when they know just how much abilty he has before he actually has his cash on.
 
SlimChance said:
Prove it.
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The law of libel is clear - it is for those making the allegations to prove what they say is true not the other way round .

There are some extremely unwise comments on this thread made not only about JP McManus but about the champion jockey and posters could well be exposing Col to action .
 
Ardross said:
The law of libel is clear - it is for those making the allegations to prove what they say is true not the other way round .

There are some extremely unwise comments on this thread made not only about JP McManus but about the champion jockey and posters could well be exposing Col to action .
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... Which is why I've held back from asking Slim to provide a more convincing reply to Aragorn's post than he's managed so far.
 
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What do you want me to back up? It's more likely JP will sue the people who says he's incapable of landing a touch at small meetings.


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Aragorn said:
Slim, you said: "Do you honestly think JP pays full whack to every trainer? " the difference between that and a discount being?

Prior to that you said this:


"1/100 Yes
40/1 No

You need an open mind to understand this. For a start I suggest you read the worst piece of journalism ever written which was an RP Sunday article by Brough Scott on the 'great man' where he boasts about having it off on a JP gamble while he was there for the interview. Everyone talks about traing fees erc but these mean that people owe him the highest quality information. He can have a bet and rule our half the field. Some people on here are so naive that I wonder if they've expecting Santa Claus to deliver this year."

So you're calling people naive, and I assumed I was included in that, yet you've been unable to substantiate any of what you've actually said and then you're throwing your toys when people don't bow down to your "knowledge"? You're bound to get taken to task.

All i've done is pointed out that the facts available to us suggest he'd have to be turning a hell of a profit on his racing punting to make a profit on his racing operation and asked how you can be so sure he does. To my mind you've not been able to prove anything other than that he can bet millions across a number of sportsbooks (Which I don't doubt but that wasn;t the point) or you've tried to disprove my assertions which you've not done a great job of.

Personally I think your naive if you don't see that there is an element of philanthropy in the way he manages his racing operation. I'm not a frequent or serious enough punter to say that I truly understand his methods but my line of work means i'm more than capable of assessing whether or not a business is viable and the facts available say its a loss making business.

And frankly I just don't think it matters to him.
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This one, the same post Bar said you should answer more fully.
 
Is there an element of philanthropy and/or giving his mates a dig out? Yes. You only have to look at the quotes from trainers who he sends horses for the first time. They're tongue tied from using superlatives as to how grateful they are. Does he pay full training fees? I can't prove it but Im very skeptical that he does. My point being that the amount suggested on this thread for the his total expenditure on racing is too high.

Something that has not been mentioned on here are quotes from Tony McCoy about his working relationship with JP. He says along the lines that JP would ring him on a Monday asking his opinion of the most modest of beasts. He know doubt gives trainers a similar grilling. Now if you're clever, and the great man certainly is, you quickly learn to filter the guessers from the shrewd lads and use the information not available to the market to your advantage. He just does it to a level that's off the scale.

A few years ago he bought a horse after it hacked up around s gaff but before it was announced he was punted off the boards for the Ladbrokes hurdle. He was also smashed late on in his run before Ascot when running in different colours. Now doubt who's money that was. The trainer was at pains to stress he had no idea where the money had come from. That's an example of down right lies and is indicative of how they work. I don't disapprove of it, I admire they military procession and dedication to having it right off time and time again.

If anyone still believes he's a 3 punts a year man and never punts ante post than so be it. Like I said I'm not here to educate lads.
 
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Some mistakes in that post. iPhone is too much hassle to edit it. Can anyone remember the namd of the horse Im referring too that was punted off the boards for the Ladbroke ante post?
 
Educate lads?!

Who said 3 punts a year?

If i read your post correctly, you're still not backing up any of the points you make.

Don't take this as having a go, but you haven't sustantiated one word as yet..
 
Slim where on earth do you get your info from? JP bought Bellvano before he had even jumped a hurdle and from memory never ran in the Labroke Hurdle. Apart from that he's been completely untrustworthy since his novice days and he'd be the last horse on the planet JP would back.

As far as Training fees go to make a difference to JP annual bill he'd have to be getting a massive discount to make any significant difference. Their simply isn't the mark up on traning bills to allow for that.

Furthermore how come that we never hear about a touch JP has landed these days. It's pretty common knowledge that he had a 6 figure sum on Istabraq when he won the Champion Hurdle but as far as I know that's the last very large bet he's had.

If JP did back AP like you suggest and I can assure you he does not these days who the hell is he backing them with.

Can you give me the name of one horse in the last 3 years that JP backed AP Just one will do.

I seem to recall Witchita Linesman being backed down to fav on course by JP which was the talk of the place then there was the failed gamble on Get Me Out Of Here who again was gambled on the day of the race. He was easy to back 16/1 a week before the race was 14/1 in places in the morning opened at 11/1 on the course and was backed into 7/1 on course. Had JP backed him AP no one would have got a sniff at 11/1 but plenty did. Then the following year JP has gone on record as saying he never backed any of his 5 winners but told a few close friends he thought Synchronized had a very good chance of winning

You reckon you admire the military precision of getting it right time and time again. Have you ever bothered to look at how many short priced horses of JP's get turnd over? There's been at least 10 in the last 14 days which would indicate one of two things. Either JP is losing fortunes or punters see Green and Gold and get stuck in which may or may not look like there's a huge gamble going on. The truth is it is far more likely it's the overall weight of money from mad punters who jump on the bandwagon in case they miss out on something.
 
Hamm said:
Educate lads?!

Who said 3 punts a year?

If i read your post correctly, you're still not backing up any of the points you make.

Don't take this as having a go, but you haven't sustantiated one word as yet..
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I've made my opinion very clear. There is plenty of evidence out there if you know what you're looking for. If you want to believe otherwise so be it but don't tell me "all the available evidence" says otherwise. That's just naive.


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Tanlic said:
Slim where on earth do you get your info from? JP bought Bellvano before he had even jumped a hurdle and from memory never ran in the Labroke Hurdle. Apart from that he's been completely untrustworthy since his novice days and he'd be the last horse on the planet JP would back.

As far as Training fees go to make a difference to JP annual bill he'd have to be getting a massive discount to make any significant difference. Their simply isn't the mark up on traning bills to allow for that.

Furthermore how come that we never hear about a touch JP has landed these days. It's pretty common knowledge that he had a 6 figure sum on Istabraq when he won the Champion Hurdle but as far as I know that's the last very large bet he's had.

If JP did back AP like you suggest and I can assure you he does not these days who the hell is he backing them with.

Can you give me the name of one horse in the last 3 years that JP backed AP Just one will do.

I seem to recall Witchita Linesman being backed down to fav on course by JP which was the talk of the place then there was the failed gamble on Get Me Out Of Here who again was gambled on the day of the race. He was easy to back 16/1 a week before the race was 14/1 in places in the morning opened at 11/1 on the course and was backed into 7/1 on course. Had JP backed him AP no one would have got a sniff at 11/1 but plenty did. Then the following year JP has gone on record as saying he never backed any of his 5 winners but told a few close friends he thought Synchronized had a very good chance of winning

You reckon you admire the military precision of getting it right time and time again. Have you ever bothered to look at how many short priced horses of JP's get turnd over? There's been at least 10 in the last 14 days which would indicate one of two things. Either JP is losing fortunes or punters see Green and Gold and get stuck in which may or may not look like there's a huge gamble going on. The truth is it is far more likely it's the overall weight of money from mad punters who jump on the bandwagon in case they miss out on something.
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Again I've had to stop halway down a post. You're completely wrong. You can assure me my hole.
 
SlimChance said:
I've made my opinion very clear. There is plenty of evidence out there if you know what you're looking for. If you want to believe otherwise so be it but don't tell me "all the available evidence" says otherwise. That's just naive.


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Why don't you show us the evidence then?
 
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