The Oaks (and beyond)

A horse that was discussed as a potential non-stayer and your surprised that discussion then comes back to whether as a weakening third she got the trip?
 
Not the point DJ. As good as these threads often are, there is an increasing tendency to see everything through the Ballydoyle prism. Thats ok if thats what posters want but can seem a bit one dimensional. Didnt have a strong opinion on this race at all frankly...but it was a fascinating one all the same
 
Hills met no more trouble than the winner or the second. The difference was that they had enough in the tank to get themselves out of trouble, his mount didn't. At best she would have finished a closer fourth with a clear run.
 
At the top of the hill he could have moved off the rail and followed the Jarvis filly but elected to stay on the fence with horrible consequences. I don't think she'd have beaten the winner but she'd have been upsides the runner-up.
 
Apologies, a careless way of phrasing it. The point I was trying to make is that usually, and all the moreso at Epsom, it is the horses that are just beginning to feel the pinch that meet the trouble because they don't have the energy to help themselves get out of it. At one stage I seem to recall (forgive me if I'm wrong, it's been a long day!) Rumoush and Snow Fairy pretty much going for the same gap, the winner had the burst to get their first and that made the difference. Rumoush is probably a 110-112 filly, but no better I don't think.
 
Fair enough. The issue I have is simply Hills having no tactical nous. Moore at least had a plan, he knew the Bolger filly was going to set a fast pace so he anchored his filly at the back and the race went to plan.
 
Jockey gets the blame, but you don't know what the riding instructions were - Hills might've been following a plan, too, but not one of his choosing. I'd like to doff my cap to the owner of SNOW FAIRY, who also bred her - owner's as well as breeder's prize - sometimes it really does all come together in one golden day.
 
Couldn't see much wrong with Hills ride, he's better from the front but he's fine coming from behind. Arcano in the Morny is a fine example.

Whilst I acknowledge that Remember When wasn't good enough to win yesterday, I think she'll be the best filly at the end of the year. She just looks like she'll thrive on more racing and I'd be interested to see what route they take with her.
 
Both Remember When and Rumoush looked awkward at times on the track. They are both tall, slightly gangly fillies still and may prove better on a flatter course.
 
Hamm said:
We can't have a situation where FAG is comfortably better when he outstays the other horses in his race but then Remember When is only outstayed (and not inferior) when she doesn't win.
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Fame And Glory out stayed confirmed stayers - there is a difference.

Watching the race again and Remember When really did do a good impression of Peeping Fawn - big move from right out the back to challenge but comfortably held at the line. I still think there is a stamina doubt for her but worth another shot at the trip. Pretty Polly and Irish Oaks is the blindingly obvious route.

Winner was pretty impressive though - due to be supplemented for the Irish Oaks as well.
 
I think Remember when didnt stay yesterday.

It was a very weak edition and I imagine french fillies will dominate the season.
 
to be fair - you have to question Moore's tactical nous here..he held her up off a soft pace..the horse got him out of jail with what is an astonishing finish against a pace bias.
 
I dont think the Oaks was run at a slow pace, the time is not so good because they are a bad field but horses in rear fared best in the finish and in this course this is not the sign of a slow run race.
 
sunybay said:
I dont think the Oaks was run at a slow pace, the time is not so good because they are a bad field but horses in rear fared best in the finish and in this course this is not the sign of a slow run race.
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the sectionals clearly tell you it wasn't strong early..a good second slower than even pace at 3.5f out..it was a speed test late on
 
Euronymous said:
Agree with that. If they'd gone slow the likes of Rumoush would have been pulling for their heads throughout.
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you may believe that but the timings clearly point to slower than even pace

even visually watching it live in betting shop i thought it wasn't strong early

but if you think it a true run race...then fair play to you..but its not based on fact

imo..moore was lucky he had a very speedy horse under him..closer sit and she would have won very easily
 
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I couldn't disagree more - they went pretty hard early even if they steadied it towards the top of the hill. It was a great ride to keep the horse out of trouble as they all got tired up front . The horse got there too soon if anything having to dive for the rail and then she spooked at something 30-40 yards from the line.
 
Ardross said:
I couldn't disagree more - they went pretty hard early even if they steadied it towards the top of the hill. It was a great ride to keep the horse out of trouble as they all got tired up front . The horse got there too soon if anything having to dive for the rail and then she spooked at something 30-40 yards from the line.
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where is your evidence they went hard?

i'd love to know where these ideas come from..will look forward to how you come to your conclusions

you must have seen a different race to me
 
Galileo said:
Fame And Glory out stayed confirmed stayers - there is a difference.

Watching the race again and Remember When really did do a good impression of Peeping Fawn - big move from right out the back to challenge but comfortably held at the line. I still think there is a stamina doubt for her but worth another shot at the trip. Pretty Polly and Irish Oaks is the blindingly obvious route.

Winner was pretty impressive though - due to be supplemented for the Irish Oaks as well.
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Fair enough.
 
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