The Road to the 2017 Cheltenham Gold Cup

Given that Vautour is better left-handed it makes sense for him to go to Leopardstown and Douvan try the KG.

One thing worth remembering is that Willie would probably be very happy to win the Ryanair this season. He has the first 6 in the betting at the moment.
 
Given that Vautour was chinned on the line in the King George last season after making most of the running.......and given Douvan has never raced over further than 17f in his twelve-race career, it really makes sense for Vautour to go to Kempton, and Douvan to stick to 2m for the foreseeable :p.

It's all about opinions, arch! :cool:
 
Grasshopper said:
Given that Vautour was chinned on the line in the King George last season after making most of the running.......and given Douvan has never raced over further than 17f in his twelve-race career, it really makes sense for Vautour to go to Kempton, and Douvan to stick to 2m for the foreseeable :p.

It's all about opinions, arch! :cool:
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given the choice between LH/RH..and with Vautour that would be a stretch imo..and stepping up a mile..i'd be going with the ? LHRH horse over the step up by a mile in trip

i'm a little bemused by the Douvan step up to 3m talk...to me..thats one hell of a lot of guesswork about what he can achieve at further..sorry here Grass..but even Frankel..as brilliant as he was..was never stepped up to 1.5 miles...because the trainer was a genius and knew it would be stretching the elastic band..and so diluting the brilliance

that elastic band is why i want Vautour to go for the Ryanir again..and not stretch it to a point where he looks just average..that horse is unreal at 2m5f..unreal stuff churned out at that trip..over further..its pretty average..a bit like running Dayjur..sorry Grass..at a mile
 
Archie..you can have whatever price you want for the GC..i'd rather have a fast trapping T1 fav at Walthamstow tomorrow than even think about how good Douvan is over a stiff 3m2.5f..it is beyond my comprehension why punters even take that type of guesswork on..when everyday you can buy your essentails backing or laying virtually nailed on results with horses that have absolutely no chance or very good ones

what were your antepost profits last year?..i'll put my day to day ones against them..with nowhere near the risk you are taking
 
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EC1 said:
given the choice between LH/RH..and with Vautour that would be a stretch imo..and stepping up a mile..i'd be going with the ? LHRH horse over the step up by a mile in trip

i'm a little bemused by the Douvan step up to 3m talk...to me..thats one hell of a lot of guesswork about what he can achieve at further..sorry here Grass..but even Frankel..as brilliant as he was..was never stepped up to 1.5 miles...because the trainer was a genius and knew it would be stretching the elastic band..and so diluting the brilliance

that elastic band is why i want Vautour to go for the Ryanir again..and not stretch it to a point where he looks just average..that horse is unreal at 2m5f..unreal stuff churned out at that trip..over further..its pretty average..a bit like running Dayjur..sorry Grass..at a mile
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I know your position with Vautour, EC1, and I don't dispute that it makes sense, insofar as the Ryanair is concerned.

I just have more optimism when it comes to Vautour's trip. Despite how some have observed the King George outcome, I am perfectly happy that he gets 3m, and with a more cautious ride in a Gold Cup, I think he has a chance of getting home OK. I do, however, concede that others will take a more pessimistic view and oppose the horse, until the day he is able to prove them wrong over the Gold Cup trip.

The important thing for me is that the horse deserves his chance in the big race.

Hoovering-up Ryanair's against patently-inferior animals, would be like having Messi sign for Arbroath just for the money, as far as I'm concerned.
 
EC1 said:
.......that horse is unreal at 2m5f..unreal stuff churned out at that trip..over further..its pretty average.......
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Just for the record - and consistency! :lol: - I disagree with this bit.

By any measure, the last KG was a tremendous renewal, and getting beat a Head in it, does not equate to an "average" performance. As first outings over the trip go, it was about as good as you will see.....it was every bit as good as Best Mate's first try in the King George, imho.
 
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I honestly don't think the Ryanair effort is far off his KG effort myself - if at all. He ran into much more capable animals at Kempton than he did at Cheltenham.

Quibbling, I know......but without quibbling, we wouldn't have much of a forum. :cool:
 
Grasshopper said:
I honestly don't think the Ryanair effort is far off his KG effort myself - if at all. He ran into much more capable animals at Kempton than he did at Cheltenham.

Quibbling, I know......but without quibbling, we wouldn't have much of a forum. :cool:
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i think Vautour is an exceptional horse..its just the trip we disagree with..imo..the evidence up to press is that shorter than 3m is his forte..ie he buries the oppo..when the elastic is stretched..he is at CC level...then again..CC got beat on staurday when everyone..apparently thought he would win head in chest

thats why the NH is so fascinating..its a series of unending questions..and sometimes we don't always get the answers
 
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Vautour is no doubt a serious tool at his best. His optimum appears to be 2 and a half.
That said I've always thought he had a KG in him even if I deserted him last year for Don.
I do think he has a serious chance again this time around if they try again.
 
he has a "chance" if main opponent falls again..and if other main opponent don't beat him again:)

apart from that..its like running Brigadier Gerard in an Ascot Gold Cup..

why bother when vautour will mop up any event short of 3 miles without an issue..its a no brainer to mop thsoe short of' 3 miles up..particularly when Mullins will want to show he can get success more than ever now he has lost those horses..how many people here would chance their arm when they have past the posts with horses when they have been snubbed like he has..every horse he sends out this year will be £ per return maxed out..chancing your arm days are over for him imo

human nature will take over with Mullins..he will want to prove a point more than ever this year..max return from horses required..why send a guaranteed money earner over the wrong trip under these circumstances?..Mullins was so pleased with the KG run that..he dropped the horse back in trip..wtf?....doesn't that give a "tell" to people?
 
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EC1 said:
he has a "chance" if main opponent falls again..and if other main opponent don't beat him again:)

apart from that..its like running Brigadier Gerard in an Ascot Gold Cup..
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Similar stamina doubts surrounded Kicking Kick before he stepped up in trip.
 
The answer to the "why bother" bit, EC1, is because no-one gives two short-shi*ts about the Ryanair Chase!

If Vautour gets beat in a Gold Cup for lack of stamina, that's fine (my arse it is :lol:) ......but not even allowing him to take his chance, would be brutal on the horse. He is one of the highest-rated chasers of the last umpteen seasons, and he absolutely deserves an opportunity to at least run in the Gold Cup.

I remember you suggesting that there was no need to run Hurricane Fly in the Champion Hurdle, because he could mop-up all the 2m hurdles in Ireland without breaking sweat. That was true, but it would have been a desperately sad way to campaign him. The same applies to Vautour and the Gold Cup. It's the biggest race of the season, and a horse with his talent deserves to take a shot at it; rather than rack-up wins in the Ryanair Chase, which is totally meaningless in comparison.

It's not - or shouldn't be - all about the money, or the number of 1s against the race-record. It should be about giving the best horses a chance to show their hand in the best races. IMO.
 
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isn't anyone swayed by my argument of Ryanair-Gold Cup route that has been used by many horse since Ryanair was introduced as a G1? Vautour next step is GC, I'm 95% certain.
 
The answer to the "why bother" bit, EC1, is because no-one gives two short-shi*ts about the Ryanair Chase!

its funny though then that Mullins gave a **** about it last year though,,,and it will be even funnier..when he wants to prove a point this time to those who took horses away from hime..and goes for it again
 
Aughex said:
isn't anyone swayed by my argument of Ryanair-Gold Cup route that has been used by many horse since Ryanair was introduced as a G1? Vautour next step is GC, I'm 95% certain.
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thats probably why you still working a "job" for a living maybe?:)

only messin..not for me in a GC in a million years..and if they do run him in it..then Mullins will miss out on £'s imo

if he was such a GC horse..he would have been in it last year...not a lower rated animal like they ran

can anyone imagine not running their "best" horse in a race for an inferior?..the "tell" is so clear its obvious

anything changed since last year?..maybe only the bullshit Mullins must have had to feed Ricci to get him to run his star horse where he could win a G1..i wonder what he will feed him this year?
 
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EC1 said:
The answer to the "why bother" bit, EC1, is because no-one gives two short-shi*ts about the Ryanair Chase!

its funny though then that Mullins gave a **** about it last year though,,,and it will be even funnier..when he wants to prove a point this time to those who took horses away from hime..and goes for it again
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That's the point. He wouldn't "prove" anything to anyone by Vautour winning another Ryanair. It would be a total' Ho-hum, who cares?' job.

As per previous, he was chasing the British Championship last season, and this may have played some part in his decision to run in the Ryanair. It certainly makes more sense than some bo*llocks about the horse not being fit-enough to do himself justice in the Gold Cup, shortly before hacking-up in the Ryanair, like he'd entered the race with three to jump.

I will concede that it would also make more sense if they thought he had no chance of staying in the Gold Cup, but I can't believe for a second that that was their belief after the King George. In fact, Ricci himself confirmed him for the Gold Cup, shortly before his volte-face...the cu*nt.

:lol:
 
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Vautour

i think he is top class, i dont see a problem between 2 1/2 miles and 3 miles
the key is the ground

i would bypass christmas and have him fresh for the 3 big festivals
he will not stay the Gold cup

owner can become obbessed with the Gold cup, but Ruby knows how to do his work to ride them all


so in 2017
faugheen in the ch
annie in the mares race
douvan in the champion chase
vautour in the Ryan air
djakadam in the Gold cup
 
sunybay said:
Vautour

i think he is top class, i dont see a problem between 2 1/2 miles and 3 miles
the key is the ground

i would bypass christmas and have him fresh for the 3 big festivals
he will not stay the Gold cup

owner can become obbessed with the Gold cup, but Ruby knows how to do his work to ride them all


so in 2017
faugheen in the ch
annie in the mares race
douvan in the champion chase
vautour in the Ryan air
djakadam in the Gold cup
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They have others to step in for the mares. If Annie runs in that it will be a insult to her.
 
Grasshopper said:
I just have more optimism when it comes to Vautour's trip. Despite how some have observed the King George outcome, I am perfectly happy that he gets 3m, and with a more cautious ride in a Gold Cup, I think he has a chance of getting home OK. I do, however, concede that others will take a more pessimistic view and oppose the horse, until the day he is able to prove them wrong over the Gold Cup trip.

.
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And it begins.........
 
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