I mentioned SS never winning more than a Tingle because it doesn't make sense for todays race to remind you of SS, its not like Kauto's KG that he won so many times and when you watch a renewal it makes you think of him. Thats why I said that SDG doesn't get enough credit, because people compare with horses from the past. Whats the point? Btw, Nicky said that SS would've taken 10 months at least to get back on track, so no, he wouldn't have won today being injured. SDG still has a win over SS as far as I remember so SS wasn't that unbeatable anyways, is just a matter of when you're at his best and SDG after his injury in 2014 summer has rarely been at his best which doesn't imply he would've beaten SS at his best but implies that SDG is almost 11 yo and still capable of going against a very good horse in UDS.
The Two Mile Chase thread
- Thread starter granger
- Start date
I mentioned SS never winning more than a Tingle because it doesn't make sense for todays race to remind you of SS, its not like Kauto's KG that he won so many times and when you watch a renewal it makes you think of him. Thats why I said that SDG doesn't get enough credit, because people compare with horses from the past. Whats the point? Btw, Nicky said that SS would've taken 10 months at least to get back on track, so no, he wouldn't have won today being injured. SDG still has a win over SS as far as I remember so SS wasn't that unbeatable anyways, is just a matter of when you're at his best and SDG after his injury in 2014 summer has rarely been at his best which doesn't imply he would've beaten SS at his best but implies that SDG is almost 11 yo and still capable of going against a very good horse in UDS.
TheBear
At the Start
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Think it was Jim Lewis with his bloody Aston Villa scarf.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Nothing strange about the lack of credit handed out to Sire De Grugy. There's hardly a racing fan alive who would not agree had Sprinter Sacre not fell to ill heath Sire De Grugy would have very few big wins to his name. He won The DO when Sprinter was pulled up and 3 or 4 big chases in his absence but it's safe to say he'd have won none of them had Sprinter stayed sound and ran in them.
Then you have to look at what he beat in his big wins. The loveable Somersby, Hidden Cyclone and Petie Rose...no doubt the names of the races outshone the names of the opposition by some way and doesn't have the same ring about it as beating Cue Card Sizing Europe and Un De Sceaux.
As I mentioned in the build up there are 2 Sire De Grugy's. We seen the real one today but he doesn't seem to be able to hold his form . He was in great form and looked all set to possibly win another QMCC and he gets stuffed by Dodging Bullets which turned out to be a very poor renewal.......You lose a lot of brownie points with for runs like that. He runs Sprinter albeit a henderson just fit enough and no more Sprienter to 3/4 length then loses by 2 street lengths on the day............You can expect more of the same this season I reckon.
Good horse on his day shocker on an off day and will always be thought of as a sub rather than a Champion.
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You missed the point Tanlic, SS was an out of the ordinary champion. That doesn't take away that SDG was a champion, and apparently still going with some credentials for another cup at the age of 11 which perhaps over fences is not that old given speed(the only thing that horses lose as they get older) is not as relevant vs over hurdles; But still he's been through some injuries and thats why I said he's a great horse because he could still find under pressure to put it up to a very good horse in UDS.
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
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granger
Senior Jockey
He done pretty ok. Didn't take my breath away but in that company they prob had him about 40% wound up.
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
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Didn't jump great but never in any danger.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Was very hard to say because the coverage wasn't that good for most of the race but I thought he got abit close to a few. Messed up at the 3rd last Paul Townsend could have done better at the last but the horse was only going at half speed which always makes jumping more difficult.
Really pissed we got another Nicky Henderson/Frankel attitude "I want to keep him at 2 miles this year" Once they start chasing Sprinters 192p probably won't stop until the outdo him and we'll never see the best of him.
JUst think what we would have missed if PN hadn't stepped Kauto Star up..........never mind he's joy to watch I am just pissed there's bog all to take him on at 2 miles.......
Really pissed we got another Nicky Henderson/Frankel attitude "I want to keep him at 2 miles this year" Once they start chasing Sprinters 192p probably won't stop until the outdo him and we'll never see the best of him.
JUst think what we would have missed if PN hadn't stepped Kauto Star up..........never mind he's joy to watch I am just pissed there's bog all to take him on at 2 miles.......
granger
Senior Jockey
PT reckoned he was only going at half pace today
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
PT said he was a bit Grassy because it was his first run of the season.....at least that is how I read it but was told later it was gassy he said........I think he meant Grassy......sort of head down and fook it if I hit a couple too bad:lol:
granger
Senior Jockey
He took off to the first like a 6f flat rat
Kauto ran in a QM (Didn't win it) and ended up ok in fairness to him
Hopefully all the side circus of where Douvan runs stops now.
The QM is an amazing race to win in it's own right - let's just hope Douvan shows us that he is made of all the right stuff
Kauto ran in a QM (Didn't win it) and ended up ok in fairness to him
Hopefully all the side circus of where Douvan runs stops now.
The QM is an amazing race to win in it's own right - let's just hope Douvan shows us that he is made of all the right stuff
To be honest if I were ever lucky enough to have a horse that was good enough it's the Champion Chase I'd most want to win. closely followed by the Champion Hurdle. There's something special about watching the very best go full tilt around Cheltenham.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
TBH I love the CH and would probably have kept him hurdling but what a horse I would have missed out on.
The fact he has gone chasing I want to see him go to the very top and to me that is the big 3 races Cue Card is chasing.
The 2 mile division is crap at the moment. Douvan could give them a fence of a start and still win.
To me he's better than that and it will be a shame if all he does is win the next 3 QMCC and we never find out if he could have become the best chaser of all time. A title you can't win by running at 2 miles
The fact he has gone chasing I want to see him go to the very top and to me that is the big 3 races Cue Card is chasing.
The 2 mile division is crap at the moment. Douvan could give them a fence of a start and still win.
To me he's better than that and it will be a shame if all he does is win the next 3 QMCC and we never find out if he could have become the best chaser of all time. A title you can't win by running at 2 miles
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
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Sprinter Sacre was in the process of putting that myth to bed, before his injury intervened, Tanlic.
If you have the right calibre of horse running against you, you can put up big numbers - even at 2m. The problem with Douvan is that - this year at least - he likely won't have that calibre of horse to go against. But if Altior proves as good over fences as he is over hurdles, then next season would be a different ball-game.
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edgt
Senior Jockey
One slight worry yesterday was the horse refusing for one moment to enter the parade ring; he was "lairy" for a few moments before entering.
I never remember seeing that in him before and it may be nothing significant but taking 4/9 now for CC is crazy.
He seems to have grown again as David Casey was tiny beside him.
Great crowd present to witness him and a great way to end the racing year at Cork.
I never remember seeing that in him before and it may be nothing significant but taking 4/9 now for CC is crazy.
He seems to have grown again as David Casey was tiny beside him.
Great crowd present to witness him and a great way to end the racing year at Cork.
Perpetual
At the Start
Altior has an entry for the Desert Orchid Chase
good, once he puts them away he can go on for the CC and stop wasting time in novice company. The 1% chances of Nicky doing that presently could turn into 50% if he wins well. Mullins won't put UDS against Douvan and Ar Mad trainer could get skittish and go for the Ryanair, so that race looks very weak so worth the chance.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Excellent point about the calibre of horse Grassy. I didn't know until today that Kauto 193 was actually rated 5lbs higher than Sprinter Sacre 188 by the OH.
Sprinter would have to have gone some to go any higher. Cue Card even now is rated only 176 so all Thistlecrack has to do is win by 20 lengths with a smile and he'll be the highest rated horse since Arkle.
I hate the handicapper on this. Sprinter's win over Sizing Europe was worth at least 191 - 1point a length and maybe even a 195 if you consider he was only in 2nd gear. As good as any performance Kauto ever put up IMO.
I think he tends to lean towards 3 milers but on one occasion Master Minded was the highest rated NH horse for a couple of days in 2009.
I honestly don't know why you keep referencing ratings that you don't comprehend. CC might win by 50 lengths, if everything in behind suggest that he only ran to 175 then he won't be rated higher. So the 2nd has to place accordingly, the 3rd, so on, with their known abilities so that CC can be rated higher. Timeform also make uses of time to evaluate a race(*NOT a horse) and the official handicapper often will also use time as an indicator. These aren't figures they throw out their bellies. They do make mistakes but comparing KS and SS ratings is laughable as they achieved that in different circumstances and over different trips.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Altior has an entry for the Desert Orchid Chase
What's also very interesting is he has entered Buveur D'Air in the Wayward Lad along with Altior.
He seemed at a loss after BD was such an impressive winner where he would go next and even mentioned taking on Douvan,,,,,,,,is this plan B?
Buveur D'Air could certainly win the Wayward Lad and his owner will surely want him to run in the Arkle as he has speed to burn.
Altior wins the Desert Orchid and beats Sire De Grugy and Special Tiara next step QMCC ?????????.the plot thickens lol
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
What's with the lecture you wally? I don't comprehend? who the hell you think you are talking to .
I fully understand how the OH thinks/works you fool , I just don't agree with him, which I am allowed to do.
People have compared horses for centuries. always will and don't appreciate people like you telling them they are laughable,