The Two Mile Chase thread

God's Own is hardly a stand out being only 4 from 17 over fences and honestly doesn't look tough enough for this and Peace and Co is anon runner....:rolleyes:

Granted he was giving Third Intention a lot of weight but he was clearly outpointed by Royal Regatta who would be tailed off in this.

Can blame the distance to an extent I suppose and the step back in trip might help but his best looking form is questionable

His win at Aintree when Vautour departed and he only looked a shadow of the horse that won the Ryanair and clearly wasn't right at Punchestown

I think you have got to look at how this race is going to be run. UDS will surely try to make all and if Ar Mad tries to lie up with him then the pace is going to be exceptionally strong.

Then there's Sire De Grugy who has 5 lengths or so to make up on UDS but consider he was coming of an epic battle with Sprinter Scare 3 or 4 weeks before that he looked below his best that day.

Some would argue but I always maintained Traffic Fluide was way too close for the form to be as good as what it may have looked at first glance.

A lot depends on which Sire De Grugy turns up but lets assume it's the real one. You can bet your bottom dollar Jamie Moore will ride him the same way he did in the Desert Orchid when he went hell for leather from 4 out knowing that Sprinter usually settles his races round about that point.

It worked wall for him that day when he gave Sprinter a hellluva fight and ridden the same way last time out at Ascot I can see him being the one to give UDS the most to think about.

Ar Mad is tough UDS is no slouch and on his day Sire De Grugy is one classy pony I honestly can't see anything else getting into tis and they will do well just to keep tabs on the front 3.

Ar Mad is the new kid on the block and very likeable but I am going for Sire De Grugy in the hope the Desert Orchid one turns up and 7/2 looks a fair price
 
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archie said:
Mullins never said a word to encourage anyone to back Douvan. The cnnts are the ones who tried to be clever and second guess him.

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That's a CNN View lol He could have said from the word go when the so called plunge took place he is unlikely to run unless he had a reason not to..like having a few quid on UDS :0)......two sides to every coin
 
Tanlic said:
God's Own is hardly a stand out being only 4 from 17 over fences and honestly doesn't look tough enough for this and Peace and Co is anon runner....:rolleyes:

Granted he was giving Third Intention a lot of weight but he was clearly outpointed by Royal Regatta who would be tailed off in this.

Can blame the distance to an extent I suppose and the step back in trip might help but his best looking form is questionable

His win at Aintree when Vautour departed and he only looked a shadow of the horse that won the Ryanair and clearly wasn't right at Punchestown

I think you have got to look at how this race is going to be run. UDS will surely try to make all and if Ar Mad tries to lie up with him then the pace is going to be exceptionally strong.

Then there's Sire De Grugy who has 5 lengths or so to make up on UDS but consider he was coming of an epic battle with Sprinter Scare 3 or 4 weeks before that he looked below his best that day.

Some would argue but I always maintained Traffic Fluide was way too close for the form to be as good as what it may have looked at first glance.

A lot depends on which Sire De Grugy turns up but lets assume it's the real one. You can bet your bottom dollar Jamie Moore will ride him the same way he did in the Desert Orchid when he went hell for leather from 4 out knowing that Sprinter usually settles his races round about that point.

It worked wall for him that day when he gave Sprinter a hellluva fight and ridden the same way last time out at Ascot I can see him being the one to give UDS the most to think about.

Ar Mad is tough UDS is no slouch and on his day Sire De Grugy is one classy pony I honestly can't see anything else getting into tis and they will do well just to keep tabs on the front 3.

Ar Mad is the new kid on the block and very likeable but I am going for Sire De Grugy in the hope the Desert Orchid one turns up and 7/2 looks a fair price
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In my opinion Gods Own was looking by far the more likely winner at Ascot but failed to get home. He was giving Royal Regatta 4lb and probably emerges the best in the race. So I'd dispute the view that he was clearly outpointed.

Yes Royal Regatta would likely be tailed off in this but that's probably irrelevant at 5f shorter

With UDS jumping and ground issues, Ar Mad coming back from injury and the general lack of consistency these days of SDG I'm happy to be on GO at 6/1.



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Frost covers nearly always make the ground ride dead. If they are left on until Saturday it's most unlikely that it will be proper good going. That is almost certainly the reason why UDS is coming over.
 
Tanlic said:
God's Own is hardly a stand out being only 4 from 17 over fences and honestly doesn't look tough enough for this

Granted he was giving Third Intention a lot of weight but he was clearly outpointed by Royal Regatta who would be tailed off in this
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You'd imagine he would wouldn't you?!! Not many horses that can win over 2m5f on soft ground could realistically hold any hope in a Tingle Creek where it's a flat out 2m!! Royal Regatta is not a 2miler just like Gods Own is not a stayer so that comparison makes absolutely no sense at all.


Can blame the distance to an extent I suppose and the step back in trip might help but his best looking form is questionable
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Really? Four graded wins including giving a 15L beating to Cue Card?


I think you have got to look at how this race is going to be run. UDS will surely try to make all and if Ar Mad tries to lie up with him then the pace is going to be exceptionally strong.
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I hope so. Special Tiara brought them along some clip at punchestown & it served GO very well.


Then there's Sire De Grugy who has 5 lengths or so to make up on UDS
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And on their last 2 meetings he has to find over 12L with Gods Own from Aintree or over 40L if you go back to the last time they clashed over 2m at Cheltenham!!!





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Kauto Abu said:
You'd imagine he would wouldn't you?!! Not many horses that can win over 2m5f on soft ground could realistically hold any hope in a Tingle Creek where it's a flat out 2m!! Royal Regatta is not a 2miler just like Gods Own is not a stayer so that comparison makes absolutely no sense at all.

[I]The comparison is that Gods Own proved at Aintree he does stay that trip and the form GO has shown so far this season is crap to be taking into a Tingle Creek[/I]


Really? Four graded wins including giving a 15L beating to Cue Card?

Geeuz are you for real comparing him to Cue Card....Cue Card was a sick horse during the jacob's days and won nothing for a 11 months and everything was beating him..utter nonsensical argument to be making


I hope so. Special Tiara brought them along some clip at punchestown & it served GO very well.

He folded 3 out and finished 20 lengths behind in last place........hardly one of his better front running jobs.




And on their last 2 meetings he has to find over 12L with Gods Own from Aintree or over 40L if you go back to the last time they clashed over 2m at Cheltenham!!!

Now that is a silly comparison to make Sire De Grugy finished tailed of in both those races and no one in their right mind would use that form. Not unless you knew he was going to run one of his stinkers like he did then and you don't



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1) I suppose that depends on what your definition of staying is. The race I watched at Aintree saw Gods Own go past 2m4f for the first time in his career and struggle to find anything when asked for his effort, especially on that ground which was probably too soft for him at Ascot. His post race script after that race read pushed along into 2nd 2 out, ridden and held, lost 2nd on run in. Indeed Eduard very nearly caught him for third. Whatever chance he'd have of getting over two and a half he'd need good ground. I think there's a reason they're dropping him back in trip. He didn't stay on that ground & an extra furlong or two can often be the on doing of a horse. Vautour fans & Oscar Whisky fans will testify to that. Somewhere between 2m-2m4f is clearly his trip. Hence, a fast run Tingle Creek should be ideal.

2) Gods Own must be the luckiest horse in training. Winning these valuable races against horses who 'clearly weren't right'!! Cue Card had his breathing op in August 14 and Gods Own beat him at Exeter in Nov '14

http://www.skysports.com/racing/news/12426/9476515/breathing-operation-for-cue-card

Tizzard puts his change of fortune down to a change of premises on higher ground with fresh air and a change of feed!!

Vautour got within 2L at Punchestown. There was nothing in it jumping the 2nd last and absolutely nothing from Mullins after to suggest he wasn't himself so that's speculation on your behalf. Ricci suggested he was unsuited by the switch back to 2m after the Ryanair but was beaten by a better horse on the day.


3) Special Tiara was only headed 2 out at Punchestown so he done a fairly decent job towing them into it. Put it like this, he was headed 4 out when Sprinter won the QM last year!!! So what, it's irrelevant where he was headed. He had done his job as far as Sprinter Sacre fans were concerned and Gods Own backers at P'town. As long as his fractions early on ensure that it's a proper pace test it doesn't really matter where he's headed. Ar Mad & UDS are going to go a proper gallop up front & that could very easily set it up for something sitting in behind.

4) But stating that Royal Regatta would be tailed off in a Tingle Creek when he'd never actually be considered for the race in the first place isn't silly?Does the fact SDG has been tailed off in graded company - actual factual information -this past while not tell you something?? You really have to ask why he's been eased off 2-3 fences from home!! That's whats hard to fathom, you give him a massive chance but are totally writing off a horse who has finished well ahead of him the last 3 times they've clashed! You changed your opinion yesterday from USS to SDG within an hour. SDG has been well held this last while and if beating Quite by Chance, Vaniteux, Dresden & company last time out is enough to sway you then best of luck with that.




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Kauto Abu said:
Vautour got within 2L at Punchestown. There was nothing in it jumping the 2nd last and absolutely nothing from Mullins after to suggest he wasn't himself so that's speculation on your behalf. Ricci suggested he was unsuited by the switch back to 2m after the Ryanair but was beaten by a better horse on the day.
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It wasn't at Cheltenham so wasn't a big surprise Vautour was beaten. Vautour would have hammered him over any trip at Cheltenham.
 
Of course it was. He was 4/9 and came from the all conquering Mullins yard. I guess we'll never know now re Cheltenham. Chances are they would've never crossed paths there anyway unless Vautour came back to 2m. Fact remains that they met twice & God's Own won twice. Not many horses can claim that. And before anyone says it. Fences are there to be jumped. It's called steeplechasing for a reason.


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Vautour was never a 2-miler over fences, and was beaten on merit by God's own at Punchestown. Not convinced the right-handed track made a jot of difference, tbh.
 
Looking over his form I am a little suspicious of the Un de Sceaux cannot handle good ground ( certainly good to yielding ground as this will be )

He bolted up at Punchestown on good to yielding . He won the Arkle on good to soft in a time faster than standard .

He didn't stay in France ( when the ground was soft anyway ) and he ran into a resurgent Sprinter Sacre who was just better than him on his other good ground runs - as the O'Connells properly admitted .The problem wasn't the ground -it was Sprinter Sacre .

After the Celebration Chase the bigger worry might be his tendency to make a jumping error .
 
Kauto Abu said:
Fact remains that they met twice & God's Own won twice. Not many horses can claim that. And before anyone says it. Fences are there to be jumped. It's called steeplechasing for a reason.
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He'd be much more upset with this simplistic drivel. :cool:
 
I simply can't see UDS's jumping holding up sufficiently down the railway fences (in order to keep him competitive anyhow) when Ar Mad is upside him.
 
From rte.ie


Grounds for concern for Mullins ahead of Sandown



Un De Sceaux would prefer softer ground at the Tingle Creek Chase



Willie Mullins and Ruby Walsh have both admitted to doubts about whether the ground will be soft enough for Un De Sceaux to be at his best in the Betfair Tingle Creek Chase.

After a week of 'will-he-won't-he' headlines surrounding the potential participation of superstar stablemate Douvan, it is Un De Sceaux who picks up the gauntlet for the powerhouse Irish duo.

Un De Sceaux is hardly a bad horse to have as an apparent second string, and while he was beaten at odds on in the Champion Chase at Cheltenham and also second at Sandown, the only horse in front of him was the mighty Sprinter Sacre.

"We'd ideally want the ground softer, it's going to be a tough test," said Mullins. "We're up against battle-hardened horses and our fellow will need to be in top form.

"He was ready a couple of weeks ago for the Fortria Chase (at Navan), but since then I've given him an easy time.

"He worked nicely during the week, but we'll know how nicely on Saturday."

For Walsh, who is less of a passenger these days on the former tearaway, the Railway fences are likely to be some thrill.

"The ground is only good to soft and when they've had the frost covers on it tends to ride a bit better," he said.

"It's always a great race to watch and he's always a good ride. It's a competitive race, but he's still top-rated and he's an exciting horse to ride."

Likely to be taking Un De Sceaux on for the lead is Gary Moore's Ar Mad.

Impressive winner of the Henry VIII on this card last year, he was cruelly forced to miss the big spring meetings through injury.

For a relatively small yard Moore is in the awkward position of having to run his two best horses in the same race, as Sire De Grugy, twice a former winner of this, also lines up.

Adding further split loyalties for the trainer is that Ar Mad is ridden by one son, Josh, with brother Jamie on Sire De Grugy.

"Ar Mad got a fracture after Plumpton. He had a screw put in and fair play to the vets, it's all gone very well," Moore told At The Races.

"He schooled on Monday morning. He was dynamite, he just loves to jump. He went very straight over his fences. He couldn't get over them quick enough. I'm just very pleased with him.


"We've had a very smooth run. It's been pretty straightforward. He hasn't missed a day, but there's nothing like a race to put him cherry ripe.

"He's so quick across a fence. He's not an extremely fast horse, but he's very fast across a fence. He's the quickest jumper I've ever seen.

"He will stay two and a half and it leaves the options a little bit more open."

Jamie Moore said of his mount, who returned to something like his best when winning a handicap off top weight at Ascot recently: "He does enjoy jumping at Sandown. The seven fences down the back suit him. I think it's mainly that he's been in the right races at the right time

"He's won three Grade Ones and a Grade Two there so he must like it and I was very pleased with him at Ascot.

"He's got a little bit lazy so I kept him close to the pace to keep him interested. When he hit the front he was half dossing. It looked like I had gone too soon, but I wanted to get him more motivated and get his head down.

"He pricked his ears going to the last and that shows you he had a bit left in the tank. I think he's just holding back a bit these days."

Tom George also has two chance, multiple Grade One winner God's Own and Haldon Gold Cup victor Sir Valentino

"Everything at this time of year is a bonus, normally we can only get one or two runs into him before the spring, but this will be his third," said George of God's Own.

"The going was borderline for him at Ascot and when we got there I thought it would be too soft, but we were there so I let him take his chance.

"He still came out of the race the best horse at the weights and it wasn't the trip which found him out, it was the ground.

"It looks like the ground is swinging back in our favour on Saturday, which is a bonus.

"Adrian (Heskin) was asking me if running back quite quickly might work against him, but I told him it was the opposite - look at his performances in the spring when he runs at Cheltenham, Aintree and Punchestown.

"He's a horse who thrives on his racing, but he just can't run on soft.

"He's as fresh as paint, unbelievably consistent and might just have the fitness edge of Un De Sceaux and Ar Mad, while I'm not sure how good Sire De Grugy will be running back quite quickly."

Completing the field is the Paul Nicholls-trained Vibrato Valtat, put back in the race when it reopened and third behind Sire De Grugy 12 months ago.




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Lydia Hislop's take on the this week's lead-up to the Tingle Creek. Well said too.

Hands up those who are bored by bookmaker-generated sub-news of supposed flip-flopping moves in the ante-post market for this Saturday's Tingle Creek? OK, too many to count.


Either Douvan or Un De Sceaux is likely to run, depending on which one is pleasing Mullins the most on Friday morning and probably how fast the ground is. Soft is the latter's preferred medium.
Gary Moore is the other key trainer in the race and he's suggesting Ar Mad might be switched to Huntingdon's Peterborough Chase the following day if the ground isn't soft enough. Praise be for Sire De Grugy, who probably runs at Sandown whatever.This race could end up scintillating or disappointing but more interesting than market-mover PR guff either way.
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granger said:
Have heard a rumour that Willie really doesn't like Douvan :ninja:
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It flew right over your head. The point wasn't that Mullins doesn't run his horses. The point was that everyone knows Faugheen needs as much races he can get to improve his fitness, instead WPM's planning to take him to Kempton with no prep run. Thats a huge trip for the first run that not many horses take well. Its clear that Mullins gives no consideration to him like he does to other horses. Douvan for instance, watch the interview on ATR from yesterday, he says plainly even for the hype'rs like Tanlic: the horse is a novice and would be going against battle hardened in the Tingle Creek, so he's got to protect him from that on his first run and also considering he has to travel. Faugheen won't have this privilege, he never had with Mullins. He'll be sent for the Christmas Hurdle with no prep and then he'll be kept away until the festival, if he makes it... A horse that thrives and needs as much racing to get at his best he's doing exactly the opposite with him. In last year's ICH he sent NC and AF against him, those were the 2nd and 3rd favs for the CH. With Douvan, he'll never send UDS against him - he's actually planning to take him to France. You get it now?!


Grasshopper said:
At least Aughex will get his UDS theory tested a bit at the weekend.
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The conclusion to my theory was that it would be better if the whole meeting gets cancelled. The clerk announced it won't. The second part was that I hope UDS wins so that Mullins has no other choice and sends him for the CC, otherwise UDS owners are a bunch of .... if Mullins still sends him to France instead of Chelt. Gary Moore said today that Ar Mad won't be anywhere near his best after a long layoff from an injury so I hope UDS wins. SDG needs to continue to be at his best to give him a race. Nevertheless a great day of racing tomorrow, I hope UDS does the job and won't underperform on his seasonal outing.
 
Faugheen is not a novice so why would he be given such protection? Looking back his first outing in open company was a grade 2 with Blue Fashion being the closest pursuer, so exactly the same sort of treatment that Douvan is likely to get. But for the minor setback I'm sure Mullins would've given him a prep before Kempton. Barring that he's keeping the horse in the same routine that's been pretty successful in previous seasons!

I'm also a little confused if you're saying Mullins doesn't run him enough or runs him too much. You seem to make both points. From what I can gather you want to see Faugheen mop up 5-6 **** poor races every season where he never comes off the bridle. Well I'm glad you don't own him.
 
I don't remember any great concerns about the ground prior to the QMCC just Ruby saying afterwards "he couldn't match Sprinter Sacre's speed on that ground" Sorry Ruby but he couldn't match Sprinter in any ground UMO

They're making such a fuss about it this time yet on similar ground as today's he was 5 lengths too good for God's Own in the Arkle and upheld that form and exact distance in the QMCC on good ground.

It's almost like Walsh and Mullins are making excuses for him beforehand and are not confident he's retained his old form. In truth he has run only one bad race on good ground and that was at Sandown and that's hardly enough proof to say the ground will stop him winning today.


Considering he went off at 4/6 for the QMCC and here he is with much less of a challenge likely to go off at 2/1 his fans have got to be happy with what could be a great price.

All being equal he should win but I am sticking to Sire De Grugy
 
Tanlic said:
Considering he went off at 4/6 for the QMCC and here he is with much less of a challenge likely to go off at 2/1 his fans have got to be happy with what could be a great price.

All being equal he should win but I am sticking to Sire De Grugy
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Ruby missing myriad chances at Fairyhouse for the 1 mount at Sandown - and you're opposing him? :)
 
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